lostarchitect 

Gee, Randy... You have instructions for painting bikes on your own website...

PAINTING BICYCLES - BRUSH APPLICATION INTRODUCTION

desconhecido 

In the early 90s I worked in manufacturing for a major international company that had a plant in France, mostly because what was made in the U.S could not be exported to certain countries but what was made in France could be. I spent a bit of time in France comparing how they did things to how they were done in the U.S. and had interaction with both French labor and French management. Yes, it's a stereotype, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

desconhecido 

I don't know, we who like the old inexpensive Raleighs like to complain about the less than stellar quality. Lots of threads here about Grand Prix bikes and whether it's advisable to put much money into a $75 bike in order to turn it into a $100 bike.

That reminds me of something I've been considering lately. There were massive numbers of inexpensive Schwinns produced but unlike the Raleighs of the late 70s (for example) it seems to me that the Schwinns were well-executed. That is, they set out to build a product of a certain standard and they did it. I've never heard anybody speak of Monday morning Schwinns like we sometimes speak of some of the Raleighs.

rhm

Well, if I walked past a dumpster that had a Schwinn in it and a Raleigh in it, odds are I'd take the Raleigh.

lostarchitect 

+1. Every time.

fender1

+1. I used his instructions and repainted a Schwinn Cimarron. The original paint was shot (rust/fading etc.) Should I have cleared over the original crappy paint to save the "originality"?

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What is that saying about when the criminal becomes the cop.....?

randyjawa 

I do, indeed! That article targets how to do it on a budget, and thanks for the plug. A second article also offers advice regarding the issue of Should I Paint My Bicycle.

That said, the only I made one mistake, the first time I painted a bike, because it did not need it at all. I made other mistakes when I built my first vintage road bicycle, and it was those mistakes that prompted me to publish MY "TEN SPEEDS", hoping to help others avoid the mistakes I made. Mistakes that cost me extra money, time and effort. Mistakes that reduced the value of the bicycle I refurbished.

Also, any bike that I have painted, except the first one, had no paint or seriously damaged paint, "as found". I refer to my Cambio Rino 2000, my Carlton Flyer and my PX10. One could argue against painting the Cambio Rino, but the Carlton arrived without paint and the Peugeot with a repainted frame, that had a liberal application of Poly Stripper covering it and destroying any hope of restoring anything even remotely resembling the original finish, which, incidentally was blue..

Any way, when I started this thread, it was not about historically important. It was about needless, and often times costly, loss.

One of the best bikes I have ever owned, ride quality wise, was an old found at the dump Legnano. I spent absolutely nothing on that bike and it proved to be a heck of a good bike to ride. One of the best rides in my life. And what would we say to the person with that bike?

Its your bike, do as you like. Or, its your bike, but painting has many issues to consider.

I realize the many bikes do not command much value. But when I see thousands, thrown away at the Thunder Bay landfill site each year, and then multiply that amount by all the landfill sites in North America that accept bicycle throw always, I stand in awe at the waste and needless destruction.

And to make things worse, we still tell people to do what they want because it is their bicycle. That statement, in itself, is silly since the person already knows that it is his, or her bicycle.

I am not a hard core purist, when it comes to original. I am a period and price point correct guy (not my words, but wisely spoken by a friend, none the less). I would rather see a bicycle cleaned up and used, regardless of its pedigree. But when a person, new to the vintage bicycle interest, asks for our advice, I try to offer useful information that will help him, or her, get a decent bike, for a decent price and without making some of the mistakes I made when I got started.

SquidPuppet

I am a hardcore Drewer and always have been. It's MY bike.

This is a 1976 Schwinn. It's no more rare than a Big Mac. Billions served.

Lots of grinding. Nothing is original. Nothing. It lost 12 lbs and rides nice.

Did I ruin it or improve it?

likebike23

For me it depends on which Schwinn, electroforged or fillet brazed by hand in Chicago? For what it's worth, I'd take them both . BTW, nice Schwinn @fender1.

thenomad

Clarified: Old things that look like old things in new condition and function like new things. That's where i always seem to end up. Bike, car, house etc.

thenomad

Bandera

Welcome to the Boom years of '68-74 when:



"the French Communist party (PCF), soon became one of the most loyal Communist parties in backing the Soviet model of political and socioeco-nomic development and in supporting Moscow’s foreign policies. It was also among the largest Communist parties in Europe. (Bell and Criddle, 1994: p. 2)."

"The PCF’s advocacy of Moscow and its call for revolution in France soon isolated it in a ghetto on the fringes of mainstream domestic politics. The Soviet Union remained always its model and master; East European Communist states were “the future that works.” But these ideas and the party’s isolation in French domestic politics did not prevent the PCF from having a major impact on France from the mid-1940s to the mid-1980s."

"At its leadership’s call, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators would turn into the streets for demonstrations on behalf of one or another Communist causes. The PCF could attract thousands to public rallies and political meetings. The CGT could close down factories, public transportation, and mines with calls for strikes. The party’s activists covered walls with posters or graffiti."

-After the Deluge: The French Communist Party after the End of Communism
https://www.spaef.com/file.php?id=853

Meanwhile the Red Brigades were rampant in Italy firmly entrenched in the Fiat industrial worker base.

Is the fact of industrial unrest in Europe and the UK during the boom period with ties to the Soviet Union through national Communist parties something we should forget and not laugh about a bit? American labor's ties to organized crime in the same era are somehow more attractive and not to be jested about?

It was what it was, and I find it amusing in retrospect.

-Bandera

unterhausen

Schwinns were rock-solid, and I chose my metaphor carefully. There are lots of people that love those things. As far as which one I'd choose between a Raleigh and a Schwinn, seems leaving both is the way I'd go unless either was a high-end model. The '70s bike boom really ruined U.K. production bikes as far as I'm concerned

Road Fan

Probably I should do this in the Galmozzi post, but: it depends what you want. If you have a Galmozzi, you not only have a collectible but an excellent bike to ride. If that is of any value to you, make the bike work and stabilize the finish first.Then if you like it, your goals are now more complex: how do you make a good rider and optimize collectibility. Those ideas may or may not be consistent.

h2oxtc

I don't have anything so say on topic that hasn't already been said. I would like to say "thank you" to those here in C&V who encouraged me last fall when I happened upon a winter project in the form of an abused 1983ish Apollo Imperial, to ride it first before making changes.

Visions of repainting the bike have passed. I've come to love the "patina", although I have made careful attempts to hide some of its past abuse and resulting rust. The cost to replace the original DA components that were either missing or broken directed me to replacing them with a decade newer 600 components at a reasonable cost. As others have said, the soul of the bike is the frame, which has been maintained.

It was fun to pull up along side another cyclist last weekend riding a newish carbon fibre blah blah bike. He did a double take looking at the Apollo but never said anything, so I eased the tension informing him that it was my "Sunday ride".

Lascauxcaveman 

^Good example of a bike you don't want to mess with too much. As an example of one that needs some messin' around; I submit my Apollo:



Then the "after" shot, of course:





I don't think even Randy will say I done her wrong

h2oxtc

That's a spectacular "save" in my opinion! Very nice.

Road Fan

I would have to take off the Allvits first.

gugie 

I modified my Super Course Mk II from the git-go when I was 15:

gugie 

Then there's this guy who's ruining old, classic Raleighs.

Can't believe the ruination he's performing on these old classics.

Lascauxcaveman 

If you're refering to my Apollo, that's a Campy Nuovo Gran Sport RD, FD and shifters.

Yah, that Pete guy is such a hack, he could learn a lot from a real pro like me

Road Fan

No, one of the unfortunate consequences of posting from iPhone! I was referring to the post about taking Varsities from dumpsters and them being rock-solid. I've never been crazy about the frames, but I admit 95% of the bikes were rock-solid, except the Allvit derailleurs. I can't say I ever could get one adjusted correctly or to move freely. Then when kids just drop bikes on the sidewalk on the drive side, it damages the mech so it won't move but does not break it so it must be trashed and replaced.

Sorry, the results of one of my rants from my teen years as neighborhood bike mechanic.

Road Fan

I think the significance of the UO-8 and its siblings today is the frame/fork.

Not that they are so robust - they are not, it's a challenge to find a fork intact, plus the frames often need alignment.

Not that the material is so great, it's not. Some form of mild steel, metric diameters (I think, I guess I should measure), unknown wall thickness, but kind of nicely light for what it is. I guess the walls might be thin?

Not that the lugs and joining is anything special, it's obviously mass-produced factory work. I read that Peugeot had a factory similar to Henry Ford's Rouge Plant, that was designed to convert rock (coal and ore) and water to cars that could be driven at the far end of the plant. I assume some innovative engineering went on at Peugeot since they had steelmaking, metal forming, and frame building all engineered in one place - they could optimize across the value chain if they chose to. And yes, the employment was very high, so in all likelihood this was a hotbed of labor organizing at least involving socialist concepts, like US manufacturing was. But that way lies monsters, to be dumped into P&R. Don't want that, mods!

But still, it's the frame design that is interesting today. The fork has a considerable offset, enough to give a trail value in the high 30's depending on tire. The head and seat tube angles are rather laid back, 72/71.5 on my 55 cm model. The chain stays are long, about 46 cm. And based on old pics I've seen, the geometry dates back to at least the early 50s.

If somebody today is interested in what the bikes of the pre-WW2 and early post-WW2 days accomplished as riders, you can hunt for early Italians, racing bikes of the constructeurs, or other needles in haystacks. Or for probably less than $100, you can buy and equip a UO-8 frame (BB needs to be French, so beware) and go out on it, and feel what most of Europe felt through the first ¾ of the 20th century.

On this site we ask so many questions about geometry, trail, and chainstay length. But if you try out a UO-8, you can find out what the result is, just by doing what we do, dink around with an old frame, make it work, and learn by direct experience. Forget about the validity or "correctness" of the components, the message here is the frame and how it behaves.

That, in my opinion is the value of the UO-8.

At this late date it no longer matters that the parts box was missing from the shipping box or the water damage that occurred in shipping, to disgust and frustrate a young shop rat. Now we are dealing with making an old bike work, and we know how to do that.

likebike23

Thanks for this post, I couldn't have articulated my appreciation or motivation to modify and ride my U08 any better.

Cougrrcj

My invoice from when I bought my '75 S-10S new in '76...



I had also swapped out the original tires, but that didn't show on the receipt.
The safety levers were a transitional thing since I was used to using them on my previous Fuji Special Tourer. They were removed within a year.
SunTour barcons (still on the bike) were added within a month or two of purchasing the bike.

Since then, the bike has just about everything replaced at least once. Over close to forty years or riding the same bike, I don't think one can really blame me. I think I'm on the fourth set of wheels. Third rear derailleur, third freewheel, umteenth chain. Cables, brake pads, bar wrap, waterbottle cages, etc...