repechage

As mentioned, I would be inclined to see if I could get the black and red to let go.
The steerer could be your guide. If a solvent works, maybe even Goof Off (not my favorite stuff, but maybe...)
If you find one that works, thinking; acetone, denatured alcohol...
Test it on the original paint exposed on the fork steerer.
May you get lucky.

pastorbobnlnh 

Sorry--- late to the party! I suppose I have a good excuse with it being Easter weekend and such.

@jimmuller, I believe I have a complete set of those brake levers (no hoods). I'll try to post pictures and if interested, send them your way before I leave on my month-long trip south on Wednesday.

I have a few Cyclo freewheels and IIRC, with better gearing. I'll check but they might have a large cog of either 26T or 28T. You should be able to finesse the Campagnolo NR RD to work with that and the triple. Is the hub French threaded?

Have you run a gear chart with the 52-47-38 to see if the 38T paired to a 26T or 28T might give you a low similar to what you have with a 42T and the 32T or 34T on some of your other bikes? I'm guessing it is close.

Another great project you are embarking upon. I really like the original colors. Very classy.

pastorbobnlnh 

Not certain if these are the same or not. I didn't notice any plastic bits in the body (didn't look real hard). I have no plans for these and I can't remember how they came into my possession.



Here is the Cyclo 64 that I have and the large cog is 26T. I have no idea if it is French threaded or not. I'll have to check. It is not the same as the Cyclo Competition posted by @SJX426 earlier:



Cyclo 64 I have:



It has been serviced in the Spa. It's unusual in that the pawls are mounted in the outer body and the ratchet teeth in the inner body.

jeirvine 

I too would give a good shot at getting the overpaint off. The original clear coat should help protect the color coats. (Assuming it had a clear - my ~'73 Grand Record seems to have one.)

rootboy 

Yeah. Looking at those pics Jim, I think you may be able to do it. I've sometimes had luck. The old, well cured paint that's been on there for 40 years is very hard. The stuff on top is less so and may not have stuck all that well, so could be softened up and removed, with care. If it were me, I'd stay away from strong solvents that might affect the under paint. Like acetone. It may sound odd, but something gel-like that isn't liquid but sits on the top and doesn't soak down to the original layer might just work. Something like Citrus-Strip. It is paint stripper, but fairly slow acting, so it you monitor it closely and don't leave it on too long, it may just soften up the black paint enough to wipe it off, without affecting the paint beneath.

himespau 

I'd like to see how well that acetone works (I might try something similar to get rid of an ill-advised paint job by a previous owner).

Edit: Or citrus strip, if you decide to go that way. I hadn't heard of that before.

SJX426 

@pastorbobnlnh - Those are the levers and they do not have any plastic with the exception of a washer between the lever and the body on the pivot pin, IIRC.

Nice set and they polish up really well! I try to collect them when I find them.

rootboy 

I suppose my caution with regard to acetone is that it is one of the strongest solvents known. But also very quick drying, which may help reduce damage.

I guess the sensible thing to do would be to start with the least strong solvent, and work your way up from there. But then, I have all of these at my disposal.
Starting with denatured alcohol, if no effect then;
Mineral spirits
Lacquer thinner
Tolulene
and then if need be, move to the heavy hitters, but these will probably start to lift the blue paint.
Xylene
Naptha
MEK
Acetone

A veritable who's who of nasty sheit….

rhm

Yes. But I'd move Naptha higher up the list; I don't believe it will damage the original paint. I have used either Tolulene or Xylene, probably the latter, and found it nastier than Naptha.

Rootboy, can you connect any of the above with brand names? I know Naptha = Zippo lighter fluid. But there's also Goof-off...

rootboy 

Yeah. You may be right, RHM. Not exactly sure of the hierarchy of strength in that list. I aint no chemist. Just going by what the labels say on my one quart cans of the stuff. Naphtha is described as "high strength solvent and paint thinner". I'm pretty sure Ronson lighter fluid, for instance, and probably Zippo, is not pure Naphtha, but has oils added to it to make it less volatile and slightly less flammable. Pure Naphtha is highly flammable stuff.

I'm not sure of brand names, Rudi. I just buy the stuff in quart cans at the hardware store. Except MEK, which seems to be no longer available, unless you ask for it at the paint store. It is very nasty stuff.

pastorbobnlnh 

I always wondered about the ID of these levers. If Jim is not interested, you can have the second crack at adopting them.

I was wondering if they were first sent to @rootboy, I'm guessing he can make a set of leather hoods for them. The ones he made for Campagnolo Record/NR levers are beautiful!

SJX426 

I will take that crack!

Recently there have been hoods and caps available. I was about to order some. @rootboy and I have had discussions about leather hoods. These bases would be a real challenge to do in leather as the gum rubber hood is thick on top where it is flat. The leather would have to have something under it to cushion and shape the leather correctly. A bit complex, enough to pass.

BTW: thanks for putting me in line!
@jimmuller - you should take these, but if you don't let us know. Not everyone likes the challenges associated with these levers. What surprises me is how common they were and how little attention they get. Of course doing a google on Universal brake levers returns all kinds of cr.......talk about wading through stuff! I don't know if they had a model or part number, never found one.

pastorbobnlnh 

@SJX426 it looks as if @jimmuller has taken my bait! Heading south out of NH and into MA tomorrow. Looking forward to more pictures and progress!

desconhecido 

Lacquer thinner will lift air-dried non-catalyzed enamel. If you've ever tried to spray red oxide primer over an old paint surface, you may have seen this as the primer is typically lacquer. Lacquer thinner will also dissolve lacquer. The original paint is probably not lacquer and not air dried, but the amateur paint job probably is air dried without catalyst.

noglider 

Jim, are you staunch about period correctness? If not, I would replace the brake levers with another type. Maybe you could use a different brand of the same period. The calipers were very good, but I don't like the levers.

kroozer 

The black/red scheme was also original for some of the early 70's Le Champions, although not exactly the way yours was painted. And all the black/red ones I've seen have chromed forks and stays.
I sort of agree with Tom about Universal levers, they are an expensive PITA. Once you get done paying for the hoods you need to find the cable hangers. I just used Modolo levers/hoods and Weinmann hangers, but I wasn't all that picky about the build.

pastorbobnlnh 

You guys are killing me!

Here I go and offer @jimmuller a gift, he accepts, I package it up (along with the Cyclo 64 freewheel), will mail it later today (along with the taxes ), and you two possers keep telling him the levers are a PITA!

Sheeeeeeeeesh!!!! Is this some plot you've hatched with @SJX426? Is he giving you a kickback if Jim waves me off and tells me to ship this Universal booty from the backwoods wilderness of "Cow Hampshire" (as @Bianchigirll likes to say) to the sophisticated and cultured lands of Virginia?

I'm betting you three are just One Percenters who are trying to pull a reverse Robin Hood on me!

Okay, enough of me being a Cranky Yankee this morning.

noglider 

Heh. sorry, I didn't read your post where you offered him levers. Carry on.

SJX426 

I am innocent! I am not even using the stash I have at the moment! Some don't like them, I do. I don't think either the Campy or Universals design intent was braking from the hoods. That might start another side bar!

repechage

I first saw Universal brake levers on a Legnano in 1970. I thought they were cool with the gum hoods and blue lettering.
Later I even bought a pair of the hoods with an eye to put them on my Mafac levers a little bit later. The different form factor ended that concept.
I sold them off at a slight profit a few years later, wage and price controls were off, inflation was marching on and I rode it up.

jimmuller 

Ahem, yes, well, I appreciate all the advice and concern and gifts and wisdom and diversity y'all have offered and I thank y'all for it. (I can use "y'all" legitimately because I am a transplanted Virginian mahself, you know.)

I know little of Universal brakes but expected to learn though this project. Of course, now I know there must be more to know than I knew.

As for originality, my original intent was to keep all the original parts on it simply because that would be so cool. But with one brake lever broken that can't happen if the lever must be replaced. Perhaps the OO's paint job made that a fool's errand anyway.

Gearing is a similar question. If I forget originality and replace or upgrade one part, why not another? That Stronglight triple is cool just because there can't be very many of them. One of Jon V's triples would give me better gearing but would not have the same panache. So it is a conundrum.

I have never been completely decided on this bike's ultimate fate. Thanks to C&V I have more bicycles than I can store easily let alone that I actually need. This Le Champion promises to be the fourth high-end bike in the basement, and the second high-end Motobecane. (The Masi and the other Motobecane are superb for riding fast and far. I haven't ridden the Gazelle enough yet to know its true character.) As a restoration the Le Champion might mean more to someone else than it does to me. But I won't know what it means to me until it is finished.

SJX426 

YES! If you are willing to make the effort to "restore" it, then go with original or equal parts replacement. Once you have it together, assess what ya got and make the mods as you wish!

rootboy 

People who don't care for them rarely include why not. But I suppose it has to do with the reach needed for these. I don't mind them, but only have them on my Frejus at the moment, and haven't ridden that bike all that much. I do prefer the Campy levers but that might be because i'm more used to them. And I think they are more user friendly for braking from the hoods.

The limiting factor is, as always, finding the rubber hoods. Not to mention the wee little caps for the adjusters. The cost of Campy replacement hoods seems to have come down as more guys are doing reproductions. I still have a set of genuine Universal replacement hoods, in the little blue box. But have yet to use them. Even though the old, hardened chocolate fudge originals on my bike are split.

noglider 

I disagree with @SJX426 about Campy levers. I think they were well suited to braking from the hoods.

Y'all shouldn't listen to me about the Universal levers. My experience was long, long ago, and it was with Universal sidepulls, not centerpulls. The Universal levers were a bad match for the sidepulls because the overall system had too little leverage. I had to squeeze like hell to brake well. I have big and strong hands, so it worked out OK, but my impression is that the levers have too little leverage. Centerpulls will intrinsically have more leverage than (single pivot) sidepulls, and that may wipe out my gripe with the levers. But it is a lever intended for big hands.

pastorbobnlnh 

Come now Tom, you don't hang on every word?
It's good to know that a Southerner was not conspiring with a New Yorker to outwit a backwoods New Hampshireman!

Now back to boiling sap into syrup.