jimmuller 

My limited experience with Dia-Compe sidepull calipers is that they flex a bit more than the other popular brands, have less bandwidth than the other data carriers (no, wait, that's the wrong metaphor). If you have enough lever travel that's not a problem. Also KoolStop pads can be a big improvement over the original pads.

It's not a bad question at all. "Messed up" can mean a lot of things. The rear wheel carries more of the rider's weight. It is also dished which means the drive-side spokes carry more weight in addition to the driving force of pedaling. A rear wheel that isn't true could be one with spoke tension imbalance. It could be that the rider simply rode "heavy" on the bike or that the wheel wasn't well-built in the first place. In any case it could mean you'll see broken spokes in the near future. Replacement could be expensive (new rim and spokes, plus labor to restring unless you do it yourself), or just a whole 'nother wheel new or used (which means getting the details right, particularly rear spacing and FW threads). Fixing would usually mean truing which you can do yourself or de-tensioning and retightening which you can also do yourself only if the rim isn't badly deformed and if you have patience and a spoke wrench.

A severely bent rear wheel could indicate a crash, in which case the frame may have alignment issues, not a show stopper but something to look into.

kroozer 

If buying a steel-framed bike, there are two main categories of steel tubing, each of which goes by several names. The first is lower-grade, so the tube walls need to be thicker and thus much heavier. The second is high quality so they can make the tubes much lighter. That's what you want. As for parts, they should be mostly aluminum alloy (except for small parts like nuts, bolts, axles, etc.). A vintage road bike with a high quality steel frame and alloy parts should weigh in at around 22-25 pounds, and be fun to ride. It's also within your budget.

bbattle

HA! On this forum, you will soon succumb to the N +100 rule and there will be a hoarding episode on tv about your house/shed/barn/warehouse of bikes.

jefnvk

Don't make me just use you all for your knowledge and then run away to protect myself from such foolery!

But, in all seriousness, a real question: so called gaspipe bike frames. Are they really that bad that Id never even want to consider one, or is it a problem that is overstated by people whose budgets are well past mine? If they are that bad, is there a consensus on what actually is gaspipe quality (e.g., I've come across some people that believe Peugeots Carbolite is junk, and others that see no problem with it), or is it one of those things that just starts internet brawls? Obviously, I can see where lighter is better, I am just trying to quantify how much better for a non-experienced rider.

Thanks for all the replies so far, this thread has gotten me more useful info than weeks of prowling Google did!

Beach Comber

The prime reason why a manufacturer would use inferior tubing is to keep the cost down, right? So they wouldn't then drive the cost back up by using expensive high grade components. Thus that so-called gas pipe bike, unless its been upgraded over the years, is probably a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen. Now if you are just buying for occasional use, it might not be a big problem. But for daily riders, commuters, exercise, etc. - do you really want the bike to be in the shop more than the road? The Peugeot UO-8 is a most pleasant (IMO) casual ride. But use it every day, and the simplex will soon leave you stranded, the nutted axels will make changing flats a pain, and you'll curse the brakes against those steel wheels in the rain. Oh, and make sure you don't have the death stem that cracks under heavy use.

So yes, its not the end of the world having a heavier frame, as long as the components on it are ones that will give you years of use. Just my opinion. Believe me, even the heaviest frame on my bikes is a feather compared to the rider.

Fuzzy2964

I have a Schwinn Passage - same as the one CLANG picked out for you - nice bike. At $200 - not a bad price and it should work well for the riding you described. I would certainly check it out. If it needs tires - you might be able to use that as a way to barter the price down a bit.

Nice pick CLANG

jefnvk

Nutted wheels? As in no quick release? I was of the understanding that is what Id be dealing with anyways, were quick releases common back in the 70/80s?

Fair point on the components, your logic makes sense As a decent sized guy myself, Ive always thought it would be easier for me to lose 5# than trying to lighten the bike! Im making no illusions about my biking, if I do 200 miles in a month, it is an EXCELLENT month, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to just find something a bit nicer, as this is a rider, not a collector.

jimmuller 

Even in the early 70's you usually got QR skewers on everything except the cheapest models. So yes, they were common.

Velocivixen

I bought an all original 1977 Schwinn Le Tour II with quick releases, so they're out there & bike doesn't have to be super high end either.

I'm so excited to see what you finally end up with.

jefnvk

Yeah, I was just about to edit my post after popping over to Wikipedia and the Sheldon Brown site...

Bonus for me I guess, I was thinking Id have to actually buy a bike rack for my car being if I was not easily able to take the front wheel off.

Beach Comber

Lots of bikes had them in the 70s. More in the 80s. Some - lower end Schwinns come to mind - only had them on the front. Funny though those same Schwinn's had nicer Panasonic frames. You never know where the bean counters will try to shave cost.

jefnvk

You're excited? I'm excited to no longer have to have to make exclusive use of a mountain bike I've had since I was a teenager

Hopefully Ill have happy news in the next week or two. I'm trying to not put a timeline on a purchase, but this was all brought on by the girlfriend signing us up for a few 40+ mile rides starting the middle of June, so that put some pressure on starting the hunt (actually the reason for the thread). Trying to not buy the first thing I come across, but my prime candidate to look at this weekend just got scooped up (an absolutely pristine beauty, at least in my eyes, Bertoni), making it hard to be patient!

gugie 

Here's where I disagree-why the skinny tire fetish? The guy already says he ain't racing. Even the peloton is going wider nowadays, and the serious randonneur guys are going much wider. 32 would be my minimum size. In Detroit, you've gotta be prepared for wetness, so I'd say clearance for fenders is important. You don't need to get them right away, but you should plan for it.

Older Schwinns that were made by Panasonic (Super Sport's, World Travellers, etc.) are outstanding values and meet that criteria. The better known brands command a premium. I took a quick look at the Detroit Craigslist and saw a few bikes that might work, but you might expand your search to how far you'll drive. Ann Arbor, Lansing even, since they're college towns.

jefnvk

Not only are they college towns, college is ending right about now, and (in my hopeful mind, anyways) that means college kids selling off their possessions!

I've been scouring all the local CLs, not just Detroit. I'm actually on the north side, by Pontiac, so even been looking at Flint, thumb area, Port Huron, the Canadian border towns, Central MI, etc, and the girlfriend is by AA, so I've been trying to keep an eye on that and Lansing.

himespau 

You might try pm-ing @oddjob2. He's in your general area (or used to be) and has been known to sell a few vintage bikes in the past. Might have something up your alley at a price you can live with.

oddjob2

The Passage is not a lugged frame and has an pedestrian unicrown fork.

There are a lot of overpriced project bikes out there, even at the not-for-profit coops. But if you're diligent and can move quickly, there are a few deals out there.

I guess I price my refurbished bikes fairly because at the end of the day, less than 1 in 10 buyers ask or receive any discount. If a vintage bike needs a full teardown and rebuild by an LBS, with all new consumables, it will be $200 minimum for labor and material.

gugie 

I love lugs and fork crowns as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't hold the fact that a bike is TIG and unicrowned against it, not at $200

I would say to stay away from those skinny tires, and it doesn't look like the frame has room for anything much fatter than 25's.

The guy has stated a few times that he's not going to do anything close to racing. I'm reading this as code for not sacrificing comfort for speed. I could see a basket on the front of his bike, wine, cheese, and an engagement ring bundled up front.

JEFNVK, what say you?

EDIT: If this were nearby, I'd pick it up in a NY second:

Not what JEFNVK is looking for, however, but I was tooling around the Detroit CL and saw it.
https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/bik/4984815573.html

2nd EDIT: Ah crap, they're a matched set!

noglider 

@jefnvk, most gaspipe bikes are just fine. Take a look at the thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-3-speeds.html

It was started more than five years ago, and we all keep gushing about how much we love them.

If you want a road bike with drop handlebars, you might want it to be not-too-heavy, because in that riding position, you want to pedal at least somewhat hard. In contrast, an upright bike like a three-speed encourages leisurely riding, and at that point, it doesn't matter that the bike is heavy.

jefnvk

Nope, absolutely no racing. If I were interested in racing at this point, I'd probably listen to all my friends telling me I am crazy for not buying something modern anyways!

Right now, I am averaging out at around 14-15MPH on a max distance of 15-20 miles mostly flat land (my main trail has a ~70' elevation change over 7.7 miles, I go out and back), with a decently sustainable max of around 17MPH on the mountain bike with slick 1.95" tires on flat smooth city streets. Can't make it go much faster other than short sprints, I am out of gears. Any more than 20 miles or so just becomes physically painful, especially in the wrists, as it is the bike I've had since I was a teen and the frame is too small.

Obviously, I don't want something slower, but I don't know what improvements in speed to reasonably expect moving to a road bike. I don't need to sacrifice much comfort to pick up more top end. My biggest benefit is getting something that fits me much better, and is more comfortable on rides exceeding 20 miles, any increase in speed is just a benefit.

And please, do NOT let the girlfriend see that pair of bikes. She's already been asking for something "old looking with fenders and a basket", if she catches wind of that pair, well, I'm going to have a 40 mile ride coming up on a vintage Raleigh...


But yeah, a couple bikes like that are on my next to buy list

gugie 

No problem. Hey, what was your girlfriend's email address again?

You're an old soul, jefnvk. Come by our barbershop and park your bike (when you get it) next to my Gran Turino, we'll have you collecting bikes in no time.

Clang

I really doubt that Miyata is a 21" frame like the seller claims with this much head tube:


Looks like a 23" to me. It might still work for you. I was surprised I could ride them myself (5' 8"). I came from mountain bikes myself and never questioned the amount of exposed seatpost I needed on a 21" framed bike. But it it doesn't fit, you m̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶q̶u̶i̶t̶ must not buy it.

I think the Passage is a '95 based on the Mavic rims and down tube shifters. 1995 Schwinn Passage - BikePedia Since your selection is already pretty limited, I wouldn't rule out 90's TIG welded bikes. I have a C&V-ish '98 Bianchi Premio (TIG with unicrown fork) that I like just fine. But I like hearing you're casting your net wide. Being willing to take an hour drive can often snag you a better deal.

jimmuller 

You will hear all kinds of advice on this point but I'll toss out this perspective. You don't have to be racing to appreciate the feel of a finer, seemingly faster bike. If you were racing you'd be concerned only about elapsed time within the type of racing you do. Everything else about the bike should be to support that end, whether it be efficiency, acceleration, handling, weight in climbing, robustness, comfort over long stages, or whatever.

To be "not racing" (where racing can even be simply trying to keep up with the A-types in a group ride) means to be unconcerned about whether a passage takes 30min or 30min5sec. Of course such differences don't mean anything to a recreational rider. But a nicer bike can still be, um, nicer.

jefnvk

Jim - if I can get that without sacrificing ride quality, I am all for it. I was more reaffirming gugie's question that if posed with an either/or proposition, longer distance comfort/reliability is more beneficial to me at this point than picking up a small advantage in speed. Michigan roads, for example (and to put it mildly), are horrible to the point where super skinny race tires are viewed as a negative to me, I'd prefer to stay a bit wider. I certainly won't discount any bike that might have had a race heritage for nothing other than that reason, though.


Clang - yeah, I've surprisingly picked out the head tube trick on photos myself! How much seat post should you use on a road bike, anyways?

gugie - I'd love to visit to Portland sometime, but I must say having a guy with my long hair and beard sitting inside is not a great advertisement for a barber shop!

likebike23

I'm with gugie and Noglider on this one. There are some cool gas pipe bikes out there that would work for what you want (like the carbolite Peugeots mentioned). The ability to run wider tires or fenders is a plus in my book too. I have found that it is possible to ride at a nice clip with 32-37mm wide tires, and they are more comfortable and versatile to boot.
If you buy a race oriented, light bike you may find that you are limited to what you can do with it. Do you see yourself maybe commuting, riding dirt/gravel roads, touring? If yes, a super light race bike with no clearance for wide tires, fenders, and no eyelets may limit you. Sure, there are ways to put fenders and racks on a race bike, but they aren't particularly good solutions.
Sport touring bikes are a nice compromise if you want to leave yourself open to differing uses for the bike. They will have eyelets on the dropouts and fork legs to accept fenders and/or racks. They will have clearance for 28-32mm tires with fenders. They will have more relaxed geometry which can be more comfortable and stable handling without being too much of a truck to ride. They will also have a fairly wide gear range for top speed as well as hill climbing.
I am not trying to dissuade you from getting a race oriented bike if that's what you need. I am simply trying to point out that there are other things that make a bike nice besides top of the line tubing, top speed gearing, weight of the bike, or the name on the headbadge. The nicest bike in the world to one guy/girl can be completely useless to another if it doesn't suit that person's needs or riding style.

jefnvk

OK, as I've mentioned before, I hate to get into a is this bike a good choice discussion. That said, I've started to get a few potential sales lined up for tomorrow and Saturday, most of which are spring bike sales with loads of bikes pictured and not a whole lot of detail other than general manufacturers. The bikes I've got available in my size at this point all fall largely under two manufacturers: Peugeot and Schwinn, with a handful of Fujis mixed in. I have no idea what it is, but my eyes keep getting pulled back to the Peugeots.

So, if I get down to the two of them, I basically come to this: Peugeots seem to have a loyal following that claim a good ride even on their basic Carbolite models, but are held back by many non-standard parts on anything earlier than the mid-80s, as well as the plastic Simplex derailleur issues. US Schwinns seemingly are built like tanks (and weigh the same) with no better steel quality than the Peugeots, but the Japanese built ones (World Sport, Le Tour) match up well against any of the other decent level Japanese bikes. Is that about right? Is anything way off about the basic concepts I have on each?

I've decided the Miyata, while not out of my original budget, is considerably higher than many other options, so that is on the backburner for now. Still waiting to hear back on the Passage. The only other solo option I have lined up is a Peugeot Course, which from the best of my investigative skills and the little bit of info provided seems to be either a PB10 or a UO10 from the early 80s.