bikernunzio

New forum member here.
I've seen Ideor Asso bikes mentioned on this forum occasionally in the past (I've been lurking, without posting). I picked up a rusty old beauty a week back. Campy rear hub stamped '59; rear Gran Sport derailleur is early 50s version with adjuster screw. Lots of quirky in-house parts. In general, the bike has all it's original components, even though the frame is scratched to heck, decals are faded to white, and chrome is now all rust. It was love at first sight.
So, my questions for the vintage gurus:
1. Are Ideors rare or just obscure?
2. Because the bike is in such bad shape, I'd consider restoring it/ having it rechromed, but will I be doing this for my own love of it, or will it have any value to anybody else if I ever need to part with it?
3. Lots of earlier threads asking about Ideor decals, but has anybody ever found a source? I've checked all my usual suspects, but nobody has decals for it.
Thanks.
Dave (Nunzio)

due ruote 

I can't answer a single one of your questions, but that's a real nice looking frame you have there.

I can see it's pretty rough, but if that's the original paint, I would think long and hard before doing a full resto.

Peter_B

There's one of the same vintage, silver color and in better condition, hanging in Mission Hills Bike Shop on Washington in San Diego; it belongs to the owner. Typically the cost of painting, getting custom decals made, chroming etc., is such that you will spend more restoring it than you can sell it afterwards.

Lascauxcaveman 

Obcure = Rare.

But doesn't always = valuable.

That paint job is beat to hell; there's nothing left to save. Do what feels good.

repechage

The brakes are not original, nor the rims.
They are good bikes.
Obscure, yes, rare, yes, valuable? Not really.
What I would of as it will be of reasonable cost, take it apart. Clean and service it.
Yes, there will be heavy patina, but most of the bike is in concert with the rest of it.
Get some tan sidewall tires too.

Problem is the headset might be worth half the value of the whole bike. Most Ideor Asso's I have seen used a reasonably early Campagnolo headset, I cannot tell from the image but if there is a thin groove around the circumference… the lure of easy money…
If the Mafac brakes are Dural Forge, not Racers, just leave them. Close enough to period correct.

John E

Cool bike, reminiscent of my 1960 Capo Sieger, with its one-piece steel Agrati cranks, aluminum Simplex rings, half-step gearing, and Campag. Gran Sport derailleurs. Do you know what your frame tubing composition is? If you have a 27.2mm seat post, you probably have double butted Reynolds 531, at least on the main triangle. Chrome is expensive, and since chrome does not hold up well where I live, about a km downwind of the Pacific Ocean, I went for a full paint job on my 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo.

icepick_trotsky 

Rechroming is incredibly expensive and involved. Much more so than repainting. If it were mine, I'd clean it as thoroughly as possible, then wax it to protect the steel from rust, and ride as is.

Giacomo 1 

It's not easy to even find a chrome shop anymore, as most have been sadly regulated out of business.

That paint really is shot, so I agree with caveman, do what feels good. If you can, try and take some pictures of what's left of the decals and maybe somebody can make them up for you. It might not be worth what your going to put into it, but that's not always the most important thing, some times it's the satisfaction of keeping a little piece of history alive....

himespau 

Wow, that's seen a hard life, but is rather cool looking. What are your plans for it? Rider, conversation piece/display item, something in between?

iab

1. Not a large manufacturer out of Milan. Sponsored a pro team, but so did a lot of smaller bike companies after the war. Probably had limited to no exports to the US, so indeed very rare in these parts. More general info - Ideor main

2. You will never recover the costs of chroming and painting. You are likely never to recover the cost of painting alone. So for the love of it only.

3. Although it is not on his list, I would try Giorgio. As a betting man I'd say there are good odds he may have what you want, Vintage Transfers for Motorcycles and Bicycles

Is that a steel seatpost?

crank_addict

as is. Leave the patina and some dirt too. Service it, replace cables, pads, old bar tape, get some vintage looking tires on and ride it.

IdeorFan

Hi...1959 Ideor Asso owner here. Yea, brake levers are not original. Those look like diacompe levers with some kind of MAFAC brake calipers (if the calipers say "Dural Forge", then the calipers are original). I would not repaint. But I agree, seal what you have so it doesn't rust anymore, and ride as is. Just curious: what is the serial number? Thanks. E

bikernunzio

Brake hoods/covers are not original (Dia Compe), but the levers and calipers ARE original, and are MAFAC Dural Forge per catalog from 1961. Mine is the Special.

Serial number is 336616. Still has sales sticker from Montrose Bikes in SoCal.

bikernunzio

Thanks. Tried Giorgio and about a dozen other folks. No luck. I have sent measurements and detailed photos of the decals from my bike and the Ideor in Cupertino Bike Shop to a decal shop that quoted me a reasonable price on reproductions. We'll see. If they turn out, I'll be sure to post details for other Ideor enthusiasts (all four of us?).

daf1009

1. I have no idea...first I have heard of the brand...so...it may be rare and obscure!
2. If you love it...and want it...then why not? Repainting does "hurt" the collectible value...but...right now...it is your bike...so make it like you want it!
3. There may be no "stock" decals...but, with today's technology, many print shops can make decals for you...you just have to get really good pictures/measurements of the existing decals first (would consult with some print shops to see what they need BEFORE repainting/chroming)

Nice bike!

repechage

There is an Ideor on eBay right not, probably overpriced, but it looks like it has some interesting features for a probable third tier model, braced on shift levers for one has a looong wheelbase, relaxed angles, now that would be a gravel bike.

juvela

Hello Dave,

sounds like you are pursuing this in a most thoughtful manner.

mount was on cl for a time prior to your purchase. fine to see that it has gone to a new good home.

since you have the sales brochure you know that the top three models were all constructed of the same frame, differing only in how kitted. the lowest model was built of mannesman.

montrose did direct importation. they are still going today. Montrose Bike Shop - Montrose,California | Specialized Electra Kona Ritchey Thule

the spence wolf track machine was reportedly a show bike purchased at the milano show of 1946. it is built of mostly fb bits. at oscar junor's american cyclery on stanyan street in san francisco there was an ideor sign. it was made of heavy steel plate which was stove enamelled in dark blue with white writing. it had a right hand flange on one side for its intended mounting to a wall.

some of the cr information i wonder about. all the research i have done suggested company was located in savona rather than milano. this city is across the bay from genoa, somewhat similar to oakland's relation to san francisco.

collector nelson miller of seattle has a top of the line model in red which is all original. he may have photos posted on a flickr or similar account iirc.

have had four of these machines, three road and one track. two were the same model as your example.

wrt transfers - at last check local to you framebuilder ed litton, there in point richmond, was working with a graphics specialist to create a transfer sheet for these mounts. do not know the status of this project. if you contact ed he should be able to apprise you.

best wishes with this steed.

retyred

I remember seeing my first Ideor road bikes around 1961-62. A couple of fellows on a local racing team rode them. As I rode a Legnano I was interested in other Italian marques. Frejus and Olmo were also popular bikes among other club riders.

I've owned two Ideors until recently. I sold my 1958 chrome Ideor a few months back. Still have my 1963.

Check out my pics of the 1958 Ideor.

juvela

thanks very much for this excellent post retyred.

much appreciated here.

one interesting feature of these machines is that there were two sizes of headplate. frames up to ~54cm received the smaller one and frames over that size the larger. and larger they did make, up to about 65cm.



have often wondered about the use of the winged lion symbol. it is associated with saint mark and is the symbol of the republic of venice. its use is slightly puzzling since savona is on the other side of the country. perhaps it is a part of the founder's coat of arms...

bikernunzio

Thanks, Retyred and Juvela for the posts.
Juvela, I knew about Montrose Bikes, also their racing team, (and their connection to the Encino velodrome). My bike still has the Montrose sticker on it. And I also heard the story of the 1946 Cupertino bike. The story I heard was that two brothers (WW II vets) bought identical bikes, returned to the states, and one of the brothers was killed while riding his bike. The other bike is the one in Cupertino. Urban legend?? That's the story Vance told me, anyway.
I will try to seek out Nelson Miller for pix.
Love that cromovelato green, Retyred!
Do either of you know if anybody besides Bob Hansing at Montrose imported these bikes? They all seem to be on the West Coast; knowing the bike shop it came from, and wondering if this was the only importer -- it's a big part of what attracted me to this particular bike.

bikernunzio

And it still has the Montrose Bike Shop sticker on it! The "Super" is, I think, at least 5th in line. No Columbus tubing. But, yes, amazing that an early-60s bike at the bottom of the line-up has braze-on shifters.

juvela

retyred's example looks to be the special model. have noticed that some specials received the campag sport hs and others the ideor-magistroni.

retyred, what model are the sheffields? are the y-adaptors steel or alloy, cannot quite tell from photos? how did those afas get on there, mounted at time of sale perhaps? is saddle the original italia with the italia clip?

thanks again for sharing your bike.

retyred

retyred's example looks to be the special model. have noticed that some specials received the campag sport hs and others the ideor-magistroni.

retyred, what model are the sheffields? are the y-adaptors steel or alloy, cannot quite tell from photos? how did those afas get on there, mounted at time of sale perhaps? is saddle the original italia with the italia clip?

thanks again for sharing your bike. [/QUOTE]


Juvela, I sold my 1958 Ideor several months ago but the pics represent it exactly as I found it. I'll post the rest of my pics for your edification. BTW the new owner told me it cleaned up beautifully.

retyred

I'm enjoying this Ideor thread but I really miss my 1958 Ideor. Fortunately I still have my 1961(?) Ideor which is a keeper. Not 100% sure of the year but it does have Universal 61 centerpulls and the non drive side crank arm has the raised pedal lip. Drive side crank probably cracked as it is newer(no raised lip).

Here are some pictures. Anyone else, including the OP have any Ideor pics?

juvela

hello retyred,

thank you for uploading the additional images of the chrome machine. they answer some of the queries i posted and also raise others. had assumed bicycle's pedals were sheffield but see in the new pictures that dustcaps have a "U" logo. a puzzle to me as the only u pedal manufacturer i can think of is union of germany. see that the y adaptors are the steel type. asked about the afas because these are french manufactured toe clips which one would not expect find o.e.m. on an italian machine at this time. imagine they must have been mounted at the bike shop level, or later. would have expected a maker such as allara or balilla. saddle clip i asked about is indeed the original italia, likely saddle is as well...

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thanks also for sharing the pictures of your white cycle. appears someone has replaced the seat binder with a qr type. the presence of the campg gs front mech does not really go along with a 1961 date as the accepted launch date for the record model front mech is 1960. if a 1961 bicycle came fitted with a record chainset one would expect also a record front mech. makes me suspect it to be perhaps very slightly earlier than 1961. alternately the mfr could have just been using up what they had in stock. you mentioned that the lh crank arm has the raised area around the pedal hole yet there is no "dust cap" on the inner face of the pedal hole. these sometimes do get lost. while the rh arm lacks the raised area it is also late enough to have the "webbing" between the two lower spider arms and the crank arm.

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looked at the base model machine mentioned above which is presently on ebay. had never seen a "super" model before other than the line illustration in the brochure. was surprised to see that the frame is built with an agrati bulge-formed head of the "am" lug series, part nr. 000.8046.



ran across this ideor marked hubset, currently on offer on ebay:




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a local cycling friend had been hankering for an ideor when he found a frameset and proceeded to built it out with period plausible fittings. no attempt was made to replicate a specific model. probably the most interesting component he employed was a gnutti splined chainset.