The Thin Man 

Velo Finds posted a bike that caught my attention.

A 1974 Raleigh Pro made into a city bike up for sale on eBay.

Upon further inspection, it looks like a fella here in Portland is having his hand in custom bicycle refurbishing for "vintage, custom daily riders." No sour grapes here! I was wondering when someone else was going to try and crack this market. Other than some over the top, Portland hipster'ness of the build, one major item caught my eye.

I noticed he has a custom mudflap and head badge. Great marketing but this asks a bigger question who owns this frame?

The ad states, "Braze-ons were added for fender mounts as well as front rack mounts." OK, some custom framework was done, then the bike was painted. Got it. But, tweaking a frame doesn't mean you built it. And by creating a large headbadge to eclipse any others out there, this makes me think it could be the treatment future frames will be receiving. Other than removing a major element of frame identification, is changing out headbadges as part of your own bicycle customization business legally acceptable to do? I know some of you have created your own headbadges for your rigs but you also aren't creating what looks to be a business from custom vintage bicycle refurbishing.

JohnDThompson 

Outfits like Alex Singer in Paris would often apply their name transfers to frames they repaired or repainted in their shop.

3alarmer 

.
...a better question might be on the pricing, which seems a tad on the high side, and the concept, turning a Raleigh Pro into a "city bike". #itsonlymoney

eschlwc

why is there any legal question? the owner of a thing can pretty much do anything he wants with it.

hairnet

It seems fair if somebody takes in their old frame to be repurposed with this company's design, style, and craftsmanship.

https://www.dougfircycles.com/about-us/
I don't know how this model works vs putting all that work into rebranded bulk purchased taiwan frames. But I suppose it isn't an issue with such old frames and companies that aren't around anymore.

Velognome 

In the automotive world this seems to happen all the time, Saleen, Shelby, AMG to name a few.

More power to him, I hope his venture works out.

The Thin Man 

That makes good sense to me.

Great modern example, @Velognome, thanks!

Scooper

For me, the seller's credibility suffers from not knowing how to spell Nervex.

repechage

Yes, that came to mind for me too, but the graphics were different, stated Alex Singer but not constructeur.
That was even for the frames made by C.N.C. That got the shop's name.
The above are just minor details though.

Peter Weigle has taken a few Raleigh Competitions and even an International as I recall and made pretty extensive modifications, braze ons, cantilever brake mounts, added alternate bridges etc, but those I think kept the Raleigh badge, but lost the model name. I have to check on the badge now that I think about it. I think the lugs got hit with a file for the first time too.

In the automotive industry way back there were a few brands that started with someone else's vehicle.

An interesting thing to consider.

I think on most bicycles, the mods would be a challenge to do so extensively that the original construction is hidden.

TugaDude

Assuming this bike is built with all new parts, which it appears to be, I don't think it is overpriced.

USAZorro

Is anyone here familiar with either of the hub braking systems being used?

fender1

It looks like it was built by someone who has never actually ridden a bicycle.

busdriver1959

I don't think there are any legal issues but the ethics are pretty gray. Look at how many bikes have been contract built but take the name of a bike shop rather than the factory that actually built them.
On the other hand, sticking your name on a bike like a Raliegh Pro just because you melted some bits to it...doesn't seem right.

gomango

A $4,350 BIN?

If this baby goes at that price, I have found my retirement income.

I would go in this direction if I had a couple of extra $$$$.

big chainring 

Is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?

FBOATSB

Any references to FZ always make me smile

3alarmer 

...yeah, I guess i really don't pay much attention to most of the stuff on that bike, so I'm weak on pricing. It just looks to me like one of those "fully loaded" cars my old man was always buying back in the 50's and 60's. I guess my main difficulty is with trying to repurpose what was a decent race frame of the era as a "city bike", a phrase which has always connoted (to me anyway) something on the order of a Raleigh Sports or one of those Dutch bike thingies.

There's a guy here in town who does some similar stuff, powdercoats most of it and then puts his own label on it. Mostly mixtes, thank god.

But I have been witness to a porteur rack installation on an otherwise nice road bike that I'm pretty sure made Jesus weep.

Otis

Bit of a circus wagon if you ask me. But my idea of a "city bike" is a Next MTB with plastic shopping bags hung from the bar-ends as panniers.

Lots of cables though, so it's got that going for it. The same way Wally Cleaver would judge the quality of a suit by the amount of pockets.

The Thin Man 

x2

$4,350 is extremely ambitious in my opinion. But, hey, start high, you can always come down, right?

MAP makes some incredible bicycles. A pal of mine knows Mitch well so he has two of his builds. Lucky fella!

big chainring 

I think a 70's Motobecane Grand Touring with a Wald basket, upright bars, some twine, and some good Ole Zinnser Orange shellac would get you pretty close for under $500.

Twine is good. I'm big on twine. And a handle
doohicke at the BB. I like wicker to carry my wine. Wicker is good. I'm big on wicker.

TugaDude

This is a first, quoting myself. I went back and looked, the BIN price is la la land high. I was looking at the starting bid! Oh well, pays to pay attention.

brianinc-ville

I've never tried a NuVinci hub, and I'd believe that they're super fun and all, but it really looks terrible on that bike. Also, shouldn't a "city bike" have some kind of chainguard, if not a full chaincase?

Lascauxcaveman 

Forty-three hundred worth of cute.

Pass.

rhm

To address the issue posed by the title of this thread first:

I don't have a problem with this scenario. That is, if a guy took a frame of known vintage etc such as a 1974 Raleigh Professional and modified it to work with some funky stuff like a NuVinci hub and drum brakes and internal wiring for dynamo and racks and all, I would have no problem with him putting his own name on it rather than Raleigh's. It's a matter of taking responsibility for your work. Putting Raleigh's name and graphics on it would somehow imply that Raleigh was responsible for this botch, which, well, they're not.

On the other hand...

I have some problems with this bike and this ad. I don't know what it is, but as far as I know no 1974 Raleigh Professional came with Nervex (or Nirvex ) lugs; and these aren't Nervex lugs anyway. They had a fastback seat stay cluster, but not the one shown on this bike. This was not a 1974 Raleigh Professional.

Say what you like about the functionality of the NuVinci hub (I've got one and will be happy to comment if prodded) but they are a little tricky to install. So if you were going to install one, it's a good idea to start by brazing the appropriate cable guides etc to your frame. Doug Fir did not. The cables are held under the BB with zip ties. The front brake cable is held to by a twisted metal strap held on by the bolt through the fork crown. As for the rest of the cable attachments, they are not shown.

Aside from all that, what the heck is a City Randonneur? It makes about as much sense as a downhill track beach cruiser.

USAZorro

You know. It's the bike you have pedal with your knees splayed way out so as to not bruise them on the six-pack of economy-size malt liquor hanging from the top tube, that is freely swinging to counter every maneuver you attempt.