chapel

So, I have a 130mm rear hub jammed into a 126 frame.
Once, a while back the rear wheel walked out and went for a ride without me while I tumbled into traffic.
I changed out the wheels to a better DuraAce rear hub and QRs. I also decided to mark the dropouts with a marker to see if it would creep up... and it does

What can I do to keep this from happening? Do I need to have my dropouts aligned properly for the 130? Is there anything else I can do?

Tim_Iowa

This is common with forward-facing horizontal dropouts. The force on the chain pulls that side of the wheel forward, jamming the wheel against the left chainstay.

You need to either:
1) Clamp the axle tighter. Ensure your DA skewers are internal cam, not external cam. And clamp them will all the tightness you can muster.
2) Use a retention device. I use Surly's Hurdy Gurdy on my Rivendell with this problem. No more problem!

Alignment wouldn't hurt (and may improve shifting).

chapel

yeah, they're internal cam.
Guess I need to just stop being such a wimp and really crank them on.

repechage

Alignment should be done.
Locate an internal cam quick release with all steel construction if you are not using one yet.
Campagnolo was the standard. They are around to fit the wide rear spacing, but not common.
Does the 130 mm hub have any gripping texture? With a horizontal dropout you need it.
Is that surface steel? It should be for your use.
How easy are you setting the closure tension?

USAZorro

Hopefully I'm not insulting the OP's intelligence here, but not everyone understands the process for using the Quick release mechanism when putting wheels on.

Step 1 - Open the release
Step 2 - position the wheel
Step 3 - turn the QR mechanism until it encounters some resistance
Step 4 - Close the release lever

If the release lever won't close, or requires gorilla strength to close, open the release and back it off in 1/4 turn increments until it takes merely a firm effort to get it to close.
If the release closes rather effortlessly, it isn't tight enough, open the release and tighten in 1/2 turn increments until you feel that degree of effort to close it.

If you either can't get the q/r to require that degree of firmness, or if the wheel still slips, there's something wrong with the qr mechanism, and it needs to be replaced.

slebo3213

Had this happen on my Merckx for a while - DA hubs and QR skewers. At the recommendation of a local mechanic, I removed the springs from the skewers, tightened, and never had the problem since

PBC peugeot

with the wheel in the frame and the skewer removed,
how close to the outer face of the dropout is the end of the axle?
also make sure the skewer springs did not get turned around backwards

bertinjim 

chapel-

A easy measure of the QR tightness described by USAZorro is to press the QR closed with the palm of your hand. It should leave a clear impression in the flesh when you have fully closed the QR and removed your hand.

PBC peugeot

another thing to check is the skewer itself
i have seen ones that have the camming surface worn down
it feels like you are tightening it down, but your not
try another skewer, or take that one apart to clean and inspect it
you also want to make sure the dropouts are not bent or twisted slightly from the crash
they must be perfectly parallel to each other and flat, or you may not get good wheel retainment

ThermionicScott 

A couple thoughts:

1) If you're using the force required to close the QR as your reference, lubricate the cam really good and try again. You may have been fighting a dry/rusty QR and not clamping the wheel as hard as you thought.
2) If you still need to use more leverage from the QR to hold the wheel in place, you may need to readjust the rear wheel bearing so that it doesn't end up too tight. The rule of thumb I like and use is that the QR should have no resistance when all the way open, but just start to resist lightly when the lever is straight out.
3) Does the dropout face have impressions from previous wheel installations? If you're trying to install the wheel just behind one, it will want to slip and settle into it.

jimmuller 

First, check the DO alignment. Second, check the alignment of the DOs. Third, make sure your DOs are aligned. Depending on how good or bad it was originally, those extra 4mm could have made it worse enough to matter.

Fourth check that your axle is positioned okay in the hub so that it doesn't stick out too far to one side. If it was originally set up for a bike with a claw for the RD and you are putting it on a bike with forged DO and an integrated hanger, it may be too long on the DS.

Fifth, make sure your skewer isn't badly bent.

jyl

Check axle length, make sure the axle doesn't not protrude past the outside face of the dropout.

Check there is no grease on dropout face.

If inside surface of QR is smooth, use a file or Dremel to score some grooves in it.

If you have anything between QR and dropout (certain fender and rack mounts), remove it, or use a file or Dremel to score grooves in it.

Adjust QR so it is tight when you close it. "Impression on palm" test works.

chapel

thanks guys. I'll take this all into consideration when I get home tonight with the bike.

chapel

oh nice. just ordered a Hurdy Gurdy for $27 shipped
Surly Hurdy Gurdy -Silver - Modern Bike

I use these on my BMX bike, so this is great. Cheaper than having the DOs aligned. There's only one guy near me who can do it. This will be a good stopgap.

MikesChevelle

Why not cold set the rear and have the DO aligned?

chapel

too lazy to bring it to my vintage shop to have it done. It's on my checklist...
But also, finding another frame is also on my checklist... so they sort of butt heads.

MikesChevelle

I had this issue a tad on my Centurion with a recent wheelset acquisition. I ended up ever so slightly angling in the read DO so it was more parallel once I shoved the 130mm wheels in

RobbieTunes

I truly have no idea, but everyone else seems to know what's up.

miamijim

1. Axles length. Axles should extend about 1/2 into the dropout
2. Skewers need lubing.

Thats it.

chapel

problem solved

I would argue this is a must for heavier riders. I was finally able to stand and ascend my hill today without worry of my wheel wandering off and crashing again.

I use a similar device on my BMX bike, so this is fantastic.

I did have to remove the spring on the derailleur side though. Otherwise it wasn't sitting flush against the washer.

Grand Bois

That shouldn't make any difference.

ThermionicScott 

Agreed. The axle was most likely a little too long, and the springs exacerbated the problem.

slebo3213

All I know is springs = problem, no springs = no problem. It's been almost a year plus hundreds of miles, and the rear wheel hasn't walked since. Hypothesize all you want while I ride away into the sunset :-)

repechage

In an extreme case it might if the axle was too long, removing the springs might make a difference, the Surley unit as imaged here is not doing what it was designed to do, save adding room for the axle and springs. That is most likely the true source of the problem if the situation is resolved now.

shoota 

In case anyone reads this down the line, I used to have this problem too. No amount of force would keep the steel, internal cam skewers from letting the wheel slip. UNTIL I realized the inside face of the dropout and the inside of the skewer, where they meet, had a clear thin film of grease. Probably chain lube but not much was there. Anyway, cleaned that off both surfaces and haven't had a problem since. Surprised no one mentioned that yet.