Looking for a lugged, quilled touring frame. Which models to search?
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,799
Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times
in
225 Posts
all I want in life...
Splatter paint was my favorite thing ever.
A trip down memory lane Kuwahara Pacer | Cycles Bespoke
I search for Kuwahara Pacers frequently. they just don't exist.
They also have a boring unicrown
Splatter paint was my favorite thing ever.
A trip down memory lane Kuwahara Pacer | Cycles Bespoke
I search for Kuwahara Pacers frequently. they just don't exist.
They also have a boring unicrown
#27
curmudgineer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago SW burbs
Posts: 4,417
Bikes: 2 many 2 fit here
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times
in
70 Posts
For more possibilities, see post #16 in this thread.
[for myself, I finally settled on a Ross Gran Touring, that I practically stole from Ebay. It evidently commands a much lower price than many of the Japanese and American icons, but it was an ideal working bike, frameset-wise, for my commuting application. I upgraded the most of the componentry to my specific needs/tastes; i.e. everything but the frame/fork, bottom bracket, headset,and stem. The wheels were actually very nice 700C Rigida 1320s, but I hijacked them for my Moto GJ, in favor of a wider, more commuting oriented Weinmann wheelset, freehub equipped at that, from my stash.]
[for myself, I finally settled on a Ross Gran Touring, that I practically stole from Ebay. It evidently commands a much lower price than many of the Japanese and American icons, but it was an ideal working bike, frameset-wise, for my commuting application. I upgraded the most of the componentry to my specific needs/tastes; i.e. everything but the frame/fork, bottom bracket, headset,and stem. The wheels were actually very nice 700C Rigida 1320s, but I hijacked them for my Moto GJ, in favor of a wider, more commuting oriented Weinmann wheelset, freehub equipped at that, from my stash.]
Last edited by old's'cool; 05-18-15 at 04:50 PM.
#28
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 473
Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Are there any vintage touring or hybrids that can handle a wide 700?
#29
Senior Member
+1 on this. Had this experience twice. Most recently on an 1988 MB/2.
#30
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,844
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2297 Post(s)
Liked 2,047 Times
in
1,253 Posts
Asked and answered?
Many modern-ish tourers will take a 32 or 35 but I find the ride quality unsettling with lots of weight. My loaded tours were done on Continental Top Touring 28's, the bike was stable and I was happy. Fatter tires for lighter or all terrain riding is great but that undermines the whole point of building/buying any one of those nice touring bikes. BTW that 70's Centurion is a pretty rare bird and hawt!
Many modern-ish tourers will take a 32 or 35 but I find the ride quality unsettling with lots of weight. My loaded tours were done on Continental Top Touring 28's, the bike was stable and I was happy. Fatter tires for lighter or all terrain riding is great but that undermines the whole point of building/buying any one of those nice touring bikes. BTW that 70's Centurion is a pretty rare bird and hawt!
#31
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 473
Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berwyn PA
Posts: 6,408
Bikes: I hate bikes!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked 710 Times
in
233 Posts
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't think the Lotus Eclair has been mentioned. I changed mine to 700c and have had trouble dialing in the brakes though. It is a really nice frame though.
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Forked River, NJ
Posts: 694
Bikes: 1973 Peugeot UE-8, 1985 Schwinn Voyageur, 2010 Trek 1.2, 2012 Bianchi Siempre
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you can live without the canti brakes I have an 83 Schwinn Voyageur I'm ready to let go. 23 inch. All serviced with most of the consumables replaced, wheels re packed and trued, etc. I refer to it as a light tourer, since it only has one set of bosses and lacks the cantis. Has all the eyelets needed for both racks and fenders though. If interested let me know. I have family in CT so can even arrange a meet.
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 605
Bikes: 1966 Carlton, 197X MKM, 1983 Trek 620, 1988 Schwinn High Sierra, 1995 DBR Axis Ti, 1999 Waterford, 2016 DBR Release, 2017 Surly Travelers Check
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
The problem is that given a standard width rim, modern cantilevers have zero clearance from the rims (i.e. they touch the brake track), because the cantilever posts on the fork are set closer than modern canti's were designed for. Sometimes you can get around this playing with washers/using thinline pads, but generally its a big PITA. Some cantis work (Shimano CT-91 Altus canti's for example) can be made to work, but you're usually best off with what was originally spec'd on the bike + modern pads. Add to this the problem that most older canti's cannot be suitably adjusted for the 27-to-700c conversion and you can be convinced just to go modern rather than deal with hard-to-adjust old canti's and 27" wheels. However, if you're fine with both 27" wheels (they make Pasela's still) and older cantis (they work, just not as easily) then vintage frames are typically better made out of nicer steel for cheaper prices.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Pasadena, Ca
Posts: 126
Bikes: 1972 Gitane Super Corsa Frankenbike, 1972 Motobecane Le Champion, Motobecane Grand Jubile, 1980 Bianchi Campione di Italia, 1984 Paramount, Trek 620, Trek 720, Cannondale 3.0, Kestrel 200sci, Kestrel 200EMS, Bob Jackson Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times
in
2 Posts
83 grand tourismo is listed in the Craigslist thread...might be a 60. It's in NYC and 175. Could be the ticket.
#38
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 473
Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The problem is that given a standard width rim, modern cantilevers have zero clearance from the rims (i.e. they touch the brake track), because the cantilever posts on the fork are set closer than modern canti's were designed for. Sometimes you can get around this playing with washers/using thinline pads, but generally its a big PITA. Some cantis work (Shimano CT-91 Altus canti's for example) can be made to work, but you're usually best off with what was originally spec'd on the bike + modern pads. Add to this the problem that most older canti's cannot be suitably adjusted for the 27-to-700c conversion and you can be convinced just to go modern rather than deal with hard-to-adjust old canti's and 27" wheels. However, if you're fine with both 27" wheels (they make Pasela's still) and older cantis (they work, just not as easily) then vintage frames are typically better made out of nicer steel for cheaper prices.
I'd like to avoid 27s because I have a 700c set I plan on moving to the new frame.
I've built up my Centurion with all good components with the plan to move it all to a new frame
#39
What's this lever do?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 473
Bikes: 1987 Centurion Sport DLX | 1996 GT Vertigo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There's a great 63cm Shogun 1500 frame for sale near me, but I don't know if it'll fit me. that might be too tall.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,433
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
The problem is that given a standard width rim, modern cantilevers have zero clearance from the rims (i.e. they touch the brake track), because the cantilever posts on the fork are set closer than modern canti's were designed for. Sometimes you can get around this playing with washers/using thinline pads, but generally its a big PITA. Some cantis work (Shimano CT-91 Altus canti's for example) can be made to work, but you're usually best off with what was originally spec'd on the bike + modern pads. Add to this the problem that most older canti's cannot be suitably adjusted for the 27-to-700c conversion and you can be convinced just to go modern rather than deal with hard-to-adjust old canti's and 27" wheels. However, if you're fine with both 27" wheels (they make Pasela's still) and older cantis (they work, just not as easily) then vintage frames are typically better made out of nicer steel for cheaper prices.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 1,597
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Bad pic, but I snagged this Univega Grand Touring fairly cheap. The name doesn't hold a whole lot of love outside enthusiasts, but cantis all the rack mounts, etc are there. I never ride it anymore to be honest. I love the bike, just I don't commute to work on it, and I haven't had a moment to take it for a tour in over a year.
#42
Senior Member
Yep. I have two bikes with this problem. One is an '83 Trek 720. Those posts are very close together. I'm skeptical that I can get a modern cantilever to work right on it. The other is a '93 B'stone XO-2. There the posts are farther apart. I couldn't get tektro 720s to work on the bike but I bet I can find other cantis that would. I may have to try out the shimano altus cantilevers.
My MB-2/XO-3 wannabe is coming along...
but it's basically what is described here-- posts are so close, the pad hits the rim before any spring tension is achieved. I wound up snagging original-spec dia compe 986's for my project. Being able to set the preload with a cone wrench instead of relying on the spring holes on the boss is a plus.
Last edited by simmonsgc; 05-19-15 at 06:21 AM.
#43
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,644
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2607 Post(s)
Liked 1,696 Times
in
935 Posts
I guess I'm slightly confused on this one. you're saying that the canti mounts are closer together on the fork and cause the brakes to touch the rims without pads on it?
I'd like to avoid 27s because I have a 700c set I plan on moving to the new frame.
I've built up my Centurion with all good components with the plan to move it all to a new frame
I'd like to avoid 27s because I have a 700c set I plan on moving to the new frame.
I've built up my Centurion with all good components with the plan to move it all to a new frame
You'll see some 80s tourers fitted with 700c wheels with the pads angled goofy because not all brakes have the adjustability.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 605
Bikes: 1966 Carlton, 197X MKM, 1983 Trek 620, 1988 Schwinn High Sierra, 1995 DBR Axis Ti, 1999 Waterford, 2016 DBR Release, 2017 Surly Travelers Check
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
No, the canti mounts are closer together, so when you put a smaller diameter wheel in, the pads are angled more 'down' than 'parallel' to the rim when you engage the brake. That's why you need a brake that has the adjustability to angle the pad up so it hits the rim more parallel to the rim surface.
You'll see some 80s tourers fitted with 700c wheels with the pads angled goofy because not all brakes have the adjustability.
You'll see some 80s tourers fitted with 700c wheels with the pads angled goofy because not all brakes have the adjustability.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,257
Bikes: 2017 Salsa Carbon Mukluk frame built with XT, 2018 Kona Rove NRB build with Sram Apex 1,2008 Salsa El Mariachi, 1986 Centurion Ironman
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times
in
65 Posts
Didn't see mentioned the Miyata Six Ten, Univega Specialissima or the Lotus Odyssey.
__________________
Don't complain about the weather and cower in fear. It's all good weather. Just different.
Don't complain about the weather and cower in fear. It's all good weather. Just different.
#48
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,644
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2607 Post(s)
Liked 1,696 Times
in
935 Posts
Most old tourers will have 27s.
The idea was that in the middle of nowhere, a hardware or drug store will carry some sort of 27" tube or tire. Now 700c is much more dominant-
By the time 700c became standard on tourers, post spacing had been more standardized. Even then, a lot of touring bikes were still using 27" wheels in 1990.
The idea was that in the middle of nowhere, a hardware or drug store will carry some sort of 27" tube or tire. Now 700c is much more dominant-
By the time 700c became standard on tourers, post spacing had been more standardized. Even then, a lot of touring bikes were still using 27" wheels in 1990.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#49
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,644
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2607 Post(s)
Liked 1,696 Times
in
935 Posts
This is the problem if you convert to 700c. Even if you stick with 27" rims and try modern canti's they're unlikely to fit asyou'll have no space between your brake pads and the rims because newer cantis are designed to be mounted on posts that are a cm or so wider apart than most vintage touring frames.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,433
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
Do you have some pictures? What year is the trek 620? Are you running 27 inch wheels? I'd love to get some modern cantis to work on my trek 720. The modolos I'm using are actually very good but they have a weird transverse cable which I had to cobble together.