kroozer 

I have kept friction shifting on my older bikes, but have started using Shimano ramped-tooth freewheels. That to me makes a bigger difference in shifting than the indexing, it keeps the vintage look (unless you look really close), and I don't have to modernize anything else. You can get 6- or 7-speeds, 14-28 to 14-34.

philbob57

Again, thanks for sharing your encouraging opinions and new-to-me info on bar-ends and ramped-tooth freewheels.

AndyK 

I said PITA, not hassle.

cale

Deeper and deeper you go. I repeat, you are clueless.

Pars 

AFAIK, the Campy NR hubs you have are as good as it gets in terms of bearing quality, even against modern hubs, so if you stick with 126mm spacing and 6/7 speed freewheel (friction), you will be fine.

Modern 130mm hubs do have the large advantage of better bearing support on the driveside. I liked someone's suggestion that if you do go indexed, the Athena 11 speed groups (or Veloce 10 speed) are quite affordable from ribble, etc. Or buy a complete used bike with the groupset you want, and transfer it to your existing frame. If you go 130mm, I would have the frame coldset, though if it is currently a 120mm frame, you might want a respected LBS or a framebuilder do this for you.

AndyK 

Big shot! I think YOU are clueless if you think it takes the same amount of work/time to set up index brifters vs. old time friction shifters.

cale

Ramps are a aid, index shifters are an innovation. Comparing them to say Ramps are more significant than index shifters shows a complete obfuscation of your critical thinking skills by consuming too much C&V kool-aid.

gaucho777 

I enjoy retrofriction.

jmeb

We get it, you like indexed shifting. They are great for a huge portion of the bike riding public. They are also great if you need very quick shifts because you're riding in a fast group or racing.

But for some of us, you can't be the ease of setup and easy compatibility of friction. Because we value those things more than speed and idiot-proofness of indexed, ramps are more significant to us. You lose none of the good things about friction setups, and add easier shifting than traditional freewheels.

Pars 

^ Same. Have them on both of my bikes.

While I will agree that indexed is an innovation and an aid, particularly if you have to shift a lot for hilly areas or if you are racing, for my needs friction is just fine. When I had my brother's Bianchi here with 9speed, I still grabbed my Raleigh most of the time to ride, even though both were the same climb out of the basement to use. It is flat here though, so YMMV.

SJX426 

index of ideas and friction on opinions! What more could you want?

I remember when my friction shifting skills were equivalent to indexing. I knew exactly how far to move that lever in for every gear. With newer designs applied to freewheels, it only gets easier. My experience with setting up friction is that the difference in time is marginal at best with no real hassle unless you are setting up a frankendrive and forget about the sprocket spacing, mismatch controls with RD or RD lateral range capability.

cyclotoine

if you were a mountain biker you'd be cursing them for not jumping on the sealed cartridge band wagon. Their MTB hubs are known for short life and disintegrating bearings and races and yes I can personally attest to it on multiple wheels.

cale

.
No it is not a "we get it" (as though you could speak for anyone else but yourself, such ego!). What I write is to inform the OP that he should not be thinking that a retro-shift crowd can use critical thinking skills when discussing friction vs. index. My point to the OP is that when the friction-fanatics discuss index shifting in terms of PITA or hassle, they are distributing mis-information. I hope to counter the miss-information that you and yours (assuming that there are others that think like you) spread.

Can you twist a barrel? If you answered yes, you're ready to index your shifting. Twist to the left if the shift is slow. Twist to the right if the shift is too fast. There, that was easy now wasn't it?

cale

AndyK, I'm going to guess you're young. I lived through the friction to index period of product development in the eighties and I maintained several bikes with a variety of shifting schemes.

You're not thinking clearly if you are going to "stand by" the idea that index shifter setup (adjusting for clean shifts) is a PITA.

AndyK 

We may be talking two different things. I'm talking about starting with a bare frame, and adding brifters, cable housing, cables, and adjusting for clean shifting. THAT takes way longer than installing friction downtube shifters. If you are talking ADJUSTING existing setups, I agree, index isn't THAT much harder.

mstateglfr 

Can you pull a lever back? Can you push a lever forward? If you answered yes, you're ready to barend friction your shifting. That was easy now wasn't it?


I have indexed downtube.
I have indexed grip shift.
I have friction barcons.


I find none to be better than the others. They all move a chain across cogs.
I have never understood how friction shifting could be seen as difficult- you literally move a lever and the chain moves. You stop moving the lever when you get the chain where you want it.

mstateglfr 

There is no hassle in any set up or maintenance of index shifting? Whahuh?
Its a total pain when indexed shifting is all jacked up. It happens constantly all across the country and bike shops are flooded with bikes that don't shift properly. This winter I worked on 2 friend's bikes because the indexed shifting wasn't working. Cogs skipped, cogs missed, etc.

You know what doesn't give me that issue?- higher end indexed shifting and friction shifting.

I loathe low end current indexed shifting. One of my kid's bikes doesn't even have the option to use the highest and lowest cogs on the cassette right now. I haven't gotten around to fixing it and its fixable, but the fact that its even an issue is more work than what friction shifting has made me do.

miamijim

The issue with old Campy hubs is the lack of seals. While they spin forever they're susceptible to contaminants. Shimano hugs with polished races spin just as well and they have real nice rubber seals.

Look for Shimano 600, Ultegra, Dura Ace, Deore, Deore LX and Deore XT.

If you want really nice hubs spring for the oversize Campy Record...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ but nice.

SJX426 

Is it time to put a plug in for Mavic 50x hubs?
[IMG]PA241420 by Patrick Boulden, on Flickr[/IMG]

corrado33

I wouldn't say it's a PITA, but it surely is harder than friction shifters!

Also, never try to work on wal-mart level index shifting. You'll be there forever on anything older than a year... (Well, assuming the bike has been left outside like every other wal-mart bike ever.) On my nice bikes, I can set up the rear derailleur in a few minutes. On an old wal-mart bike, probably 20-30 minutes depending on how terrible it is.

Dave Mayer

In the grand scheme of things, hub friction is insignificant. Differences between hubs - trivial. Loose ball bearing hubs are superior in terms of servicability, longevity, ease of parts replacement and fundamental design. I have several sets of old Record freewheel hubs laced up in wheels, and they are nice indeed. The best thing about them is that they are 'unsealed', but have grease injection ports. So it only takes seconds to service them by injecting fresh grease. All of the old grease is purged out. Best wet weather hubs ever.

Worst thing is that they are freewheel hubs, with a fair amount of unsupported axle on the drive side. It has taken decades, but I have broken Campy axles; 135mm long Campagnolo-threaded axles are not found easily. A mail-order item to be sure.

As long as you are not super heavy, or hammer hard, or ride on rough roads, it is totally reasonable to build up some vintage Record freewheel hubs with a wide range freewheel. Shimano's decent 7-speed 14 x 34 Megarange provides 6 good flatland gears, plus a 34 tooth 'bail-out' cog which replaces the need for a triple crankset. I've used this cogset plenty.

RobbieTunes

I don't quite agree 100% , Dave, or perhaps I don't want to. I sure do agree with the chagrin at the continuing obsolescence we sometimes see.

I like a ball bearing hub; cleaned, packed to poignancy, adjusted to alacrity, and smooooooth as a baby's behind. They just don't come any better.
A DA 7400 or 7700 hub, properly done, will move with the wheel when the AC comes on in the room. Almost a shame to put a tire on the rim.

A Campy ball bearing bottom bracket it right there with the type of stuff that makes cycling, for me, an acquired taste.

Wileyone 

I can't believe no one has mentioned Suntour Hubs... They don't get much better than Superbe or Sprint and no "loose bearings flopping around.

RobbieTunes

You got me there. These are Suntour Sealed Bearing hubs.
Dead quiet. Dead smooth. Absolutely great.

clubman 

Please try to refrain from crapping on someone in order to reinforce an opinion or pass on useful info. It's not just you, there's a lot of that flying around here it seems.