Has Jan gone off the deep end?
#26
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As most of my bikes (now) are 27" my tires have been 1 1/8 (28) or 1 1/4 (32).
Going from 28 to 32 was a pretty big difference to me. That mitigated a lot of bumps to me.
A while ago I had a set of 1 3/8" (37). Riding those tires was like riding on a poofy cloud made out of cotton candy and Cottonelle toilet paper.
Since then I was searching for a set of non-knobby, decent quality 27x1 3/8" tires. I found them in the Loose Screws Swift Tire Sand Canyon. I'm reserving judgment on them until I get some decent miles in some different conditions with them. Right now, for the pavement I've ridden them on- there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 1 1/4 and the 1 3/8, not like the old Specialized 1 3/8 tires and the modern Pasela 1 1/4. So I'm thinking there may be a big difference in either how tires were made 25 years ago and now, or the Sand Canyons are designed to be less supple than the Specialized Expedition OR the age of the tires made them more cushy.
I'm very happy to have found a 27" alternative or accessory to the Pasela.
Going from 28 to 32 was a pretty big difference to me. That mitigated a lot of bumps to me.
A while ago I had a set of 1 3/8" (37). Riding those tires was like riding on a poofy cloud made out of cotton candy and Cottonelle toilet paper.
Since then I was searching for a set of non-knobby, decent quality 27x1 3/8" tires. I found them in the Loose Screws Swift Tire Sand Canyon. I'm reserving judgment on them until I get some decent miles in some different conditions with them. Right now, for the pavement I've ridden them on- there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 1 1/4 and the 1 3/8, not like the old Specialized 1 3/8 tires and the modern Pasela 1 1/4. So I'm thinking there may be a big difference in either how tires were made 25 years ago and now, or the Sand Canyons are designed to be less supple than the Specialized Expedition OR the age of the tires made them more cushy.
I'm very happy to have found a 27" alternative or accessory to the Pasela.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#27
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This is it here: https://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/
The idea came from Jan's riding of the Oregon Outback. He said that his 42mm 650b tires tended to sink in soft, sandy, soil and that a wider tire would float a bit more on that surface type. In addition, lots of people are now riding non-paved roads and this allows them to use an exisitng frame type if they want to. Grab that old steel Trek 950 and throw some of these on the bike and take off. You can ride to the regular road to the non-paved road without the knobby-tire-on road penatly. I would love to try these at some point.
Why get worked up about what the "intent" is? I welcome lots of new things to try. You never know, they might just be better than what you currently have. They might not but why feel threatened?
The idea came from Jan's riding of the Oregon Outback. He said that his 42mm 650b tires tended to sink in soft, sandy, soil and that a wider tire would float a bit more on that surface type. In addition, lots of people are now riding non-paved roads and this allows them to use an exisitng frame type if they want to. Grab that old steel Trek 950 and throw some of these on the bike and take off. You can ride to the regular road to the non-paved road without the knobby-tire-on road penatly. I would love to try these at some point.
Why get worked up about what the "intent" is? I welcome lots of new things to try. You never know, they might just be better than what you currently have. They might not but why feel threatened?
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Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#28
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I was considering those HOOKWORM's but they would not fit in the fenders! Cool looking tires though! Kind of a mini phat bike!
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#29
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Maybe Jan's been looking at too many pics of bikes like this lately??.....
Oi!, one can put his whole family between the front wheel's spokes for a nice hamster style bike trip!
Oi!, one can put his whole family between the front wheel's spokes for a nice hamster style bike trip!
Last edited by Chombi; 06-11-15 at 11:36 AM.
#30
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Nice! In the ballpark but not quite the same. The Ravn is designed to be a light weight-ish/front loading/light-gauge tubed, ATB/ road bike. I have done a few mtb drop bar conversions but never really liked them. The frames are pretty dead on the road and the handling always felt a bit off. I don't have the $$ to buy a new bike but would be interested in trying the Rawland.
#31
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Nice! In the ballpark but not quite the same. The Ravn is designed to be a light weight-ish/front loading/light-gauge tubed, ATB/ road bike. I have done a few mtb drop bar conversions but never really liked them. The frames are pretty dead on the road and the handling always felt a bit off. I don't have the $$ to buy a new bike but would be interested in trying the Rawland.
Bet the Ravn would be a sweet ride.
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This is it here: https://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/
#33
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#34
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Schwalbe tires are not made for comfort. I have ridden thousands of miles on Big Apples, and they are wide, but not supple. They are heavy, and unless inflated to full pressure, they feel really slow. At full pressure, they are as hard as oak. They are, as I understand it, exactly the kind of tire Jan wants us to get away from. But, to be sure, I have not ridden Jan's high-zoot 2" tires, so I can only repeat what I read.
Nothing new here if you switch to 26" instead of 650B, the Schwalbe Big Apple has been there for years. I have never rode on them, but I am considering trying a set on my 26" wheeled hybrid if they'll fit. Keeping my 700c hybrid configured with the "narrower" 35 mm tires.
Specs on the difference between models: Big Apple HS 430 | Schwalbe North America
#35
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Schwalbe tires are not made for comfort. I have ridden thousands of miles on Big Apples, and they are wide, but not supple. They are heavy, and unless inflated to full pressure, they feel really slow. At full pressure, they are as hard as oak. They are, as I understand it, exactly the kind of tire Jan wants us to get away from. But, to be sure, I have not ridden Jan's high-zoot 2" tires, so I can only repeat what I read.
She rides her old Stumpjumper everywhere and she runs them usually at 75% of max pressure. She drops pressure down at the river in sand and muck.
They work well on our cruddy St. Paul streets, are super strong on our limestone trails, handle a fair amount of sand down at the river bottoms and to top if it off, she often extols how plush they are even after a 50 miler.
I doubt that she would want to tour on them, but they are great for 90% of her local rides.
#36
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Yes, I'm sure I was in the most base model Big Apple. I'm glad to hear there are better.
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#37
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As most of my bikes (now) are 27" my tires have been 1 1/8 (28) or 1 1/4 (32).
Going from 28 to 32 was a pretty big difference to me. That mitigated a lot of bumps to me.
A while ago I had a set of 1 3/8" (37). Riding those tires was like riding on a poofy cloud made out of cotton candy and Cottonelle toilet paper.
Since then I was searching for a set of non-knobby, decent quality 27x1 3/8" tires. I found them in the Loose Screws Swift Tire Sand Canyon. I'm reserving judgment on them until I get some decent miles in some different conditions with them. Right now, for the pavement I've ridden them on- there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 1 1/4 and the 1 3/8, not like the old Specialized 1 3/8 tires and the modern Pasela 1 1/4. So I'm thinking there may be a big difference in either how tires were made 25 years ago and now, or the Sand Canyons are designed to be less supple than the Specialized Expedition OR the age of the tires made them more cushy.
I'm very happy to have found a 27" alternative or accessory to the Pasela.
Going from 28 to 32 was a pretty big difference to me. That mitigated a lot of bumps to me.
A while ago I had a set of 1 3/8" (37). Riding those tires was like riding on a poofy cloud made out of cotton candy and Cottonelle toilet paper.
Since then I was searching for a set of non-knobby, decent quality 27x1 3/8" tires. I found them in the Loose Screws Swift Tire Sand Canyon. I'm reserving judgment on them until I get some decent miles in some different conditions with them. Right now, for the pavement I've ridden them on- there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 1 1/4 and the 1 3/8, not like the old Specialized 1 3/8 tires and the modern Pasela 1 1/4. So I'm thinking there may be a big difference in either how tires were made 25 years ago and now, or the Sand Canyons are designed to be less supple than the Specialized Expedition OR the age of the tires made them more cushy.
I'm very happy to have found a 27" alternative or accessory to the Pasela.
#38
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Huge difference in geometry compared to most 80's MTBs.
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This is it here: https://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/
I was also considering one of these Elephants down the road, but I like the tire choice better on the Rawlands.
Still, the Elephant is a pretty good value at $1,285 for the stock frameset, $1,700 for a custom.
Last edited by gomango; 06-11-15 at 12:50 PM.
#40
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Dang, let's just ride fat bikes on that next Century ride.
#41
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This is just a tactic to subvert the 26" tired mtb. that is taking over the 650b.
Or, just taking a hint from, innovate or die.
Or, just taking a hint from, innovate or die.
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We are doing 107 miles of a 250 mile trip this summer on gravel.
Hopefully it's all hard packed as I'm only running 700x30s.
I really see no point in going super wide if you are on pavement 100% of the time, but soft, fresh or wet gravel can change everything rather quickly.
Then I went a nice wide, plush tire.
Something I can drop the air pressure on and float over rocks, sand, muck etc.
Hopefully it's all hard packed as I'm only running 700x30s.
I really see no point in going super wide if you are on pavement 100% of the time, but soft, fresh or wet gravel can change everything rather quickly.
Then I went a nice wide, plush tire.
Something I can drop the air pressure on and float over rocks, sand, muck etc.
#43
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Here's the deal though.
I got sick of riding on bad city streets and fighting traffic and found the country roads here were just a new reason to ride for hours without dealing with that stuff.
I just needed bikes that could handle a little more tire and I've been happy ever since I switched.
#44
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I agree that wider tires are better for mixed surfaces, especially with a heavy load or a heavy rider (I'm #225 ).
I ride a lot of gravel roads and paths which can have a loose surface where they've been recently re-done, as well as sandy spots, potholes, and washboard. My 650 x 38 Pari-Moto tires can make it, but still dig in dangerously in spots. My 26 x 60 Super Moto tires have a lot more float and just fly over all but the roughest loose gravel.
I also agree that you have to choose the correct Schwalbe tires. They make many variants of each tire design, varying in size, construction, bead, and puncture proofing. Their high-end, lightweight variants are legit race quality tires.
The Schwalbe Super Moto is already everything that Jan's new fat tires are trying to be. Fat, and fast.
They're expensive and hard to find in the states, though. I order them by the handful for $34 from Germany.
And yes, a rigid 26er mtb is can be roughly the same as the Ravn, but with weird geometry quirks. Or chainstay U-brakes.
Honestly, my experience with my converted '88 Schwinn KOM makes a modern bike like the Ravn more attractive. Simply because it is even more dialed-in for the type of riding I do.
But I would definitely prefer a bike like the Elephant NFE (or even Jones Plus) because of the disc brakes.
I ride a lot of gravel roads and paths which can have a loose surface where they've been recently re-done, as well as sandy spots, potholes, and washboard. My 650 x 38 Pari-Moto tires can make it, but still dig in dangerously in spots. My 26 x 60 Super Moto tires have a lot more float and just fly over all but the roughest loose gravel.
I also agree that you have to choose the correct Schwalbe tires. They make many variants of each tire design, varying in size, construction, bead, and puncture proofing. Their high-end, lightweight variants are legit race quality tires.
The Schwalbe Super Moto is already everything that Jan's new fat tires are trying to be. Fat, and fast.
They're expensive and hard to find in the states, though. I order them by the handful for $34 from Germany.
And yes, a rigid 26er mtb is can be roughly the same as the Ravn, but with weird geometry quirks. Or chainstay U-brakes.
Honestly, my experience with my converted '88 Schwinn KOM makes a modern bike like the Ravn more attractive. Simply because it is even more dialed-in for the type of riding I do.
But I would definitely prefer a bike like the Elephant NFE (or even Jones Plus) because of the disc brakes.
#45
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I agree that wider tires are better for mixed surfaces, especially with a heavy load or a heavy rider (I'm #225 ).
I ride a lot of gravel roads and paths which can have a loose surface where they've been recently re-done, as well as sandy spots, potholes, and washboard. My 650 x 38 Pari-Moto tires can make it, but still dig in dangerously in spots. My 26 x 60 Super Moto tires have a lot more float and just fly over all but the roughest loose gravel.
I also agree that you have to choose the correct Schwalbe tires. They make many variants of each tire design, varying in size, construction, bead, and puncture proofing. Their high-end, lightweight variants are legit race quality tires.
The Schwalbe Super Moto is already everything that Jan's new fat tires are trying to be. Fat, and fast.
They're expensive and hard to find in the states, though. I order them by the handful for $34 from Germany.
And yes, a rigid 26er mtb is can be roughly the same as the Ravn, but with weird geometry quirks. Or chainstay U-brakes.
Honestly, my experience with my converted '88 Schwinn KOM makes a modern bike like the Ravn more attractive. Simply because it is even more dialed-in for the type of riding I do.
But I would definitely prefer a bike like the Elephant NFE (or even Jones Plus) because of the disc brakes.
I ride a lot of gravel roads and paths which can have a loose surface where they've been recently re-done, as well as sandy spots, potholes, and washboard. My 650 x 38 Pari-Moto tires can make it, but still dig in dangerously in spots. My 26 x 60 Super Moto tires have a lot more float and just fly over all but the roughest loose gravel.
I also agree that you have to choose the correct Schwalbe tires. They make many variants of each tire design, varying in size, construction, bead, and puncture proofing. Their high-end, lightweight variants are legit race quality tires.
The Schwalbe Super Moto is already everything that Jan's new fat tires are trying to be. Fat, and fast.
They're expensive and hard to find in the states, though. I order them by the handful for $34 from Germany.
And yes, a rigid 26er mtb is can be roughly the same as the Ravn, but with weird geometry quirks. Or chainstay U-brakes.
Honestly, my experience with my converted '88 Schwinn KOM makes a modern bike like the Ravn more attractive. Simply because it is even more dialed-in for the type of riding I do.
But I would definitely prefer a bike like the Elephant NFE (or even Jones Plus) because of the disc brakes.
Jones Bikes ? Jones Plus ? 29+ like never before . . . .
I also like the Niner ROS 9
ROS 9
and the Surly ECR for that matter
ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes
#46
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We are doing 107 miles of a 250 mile trip this summer on gravel.
Hopefully it's all hard packed as I'm only running 700x30s.
I really see no point in going super wide if you are on pavement 100% of the time, but soft, fresh or wet gravel can change everything rather quickly.
Then I went a nice wide, plush tire.
Something I can drop the air pressure on and float over rocks, sand, muck etc.
Hopefully it's all hard packed as I'm only running 700x30s.
I really see no point in going super wide if you are on pavement 100% of the time, but soft, fresh or wet gravel can change everything rather quickly.
Then I went a nice wide, plush tire.
Something I can drop the air pressure on and float over rocks, sand, muck etc.
#47
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I forgot:
my KOM with Super Moto on front (too wide for the rear U-brake)
and where to get them cheap
my KOM with Super Moto on front (too wide for the rear U-brake)
and where to get them cheap
#48
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A lot of Schwinns were running 26x2.125's back in the 50's, some with smoother tread patterns.
They were heavy but they were often ideal, overall, for mixed riding.
Then the "lightweight" craze came along, and 27x1-1/4" sort of took over, equivalent to 700x32. Users noted they were far more fragile.
This continued until the de-rigueur tires and rims of road bikes were often narrower than 20mm wide, needing a minimum of perhaps 120psi for an average-sized rider.
Many of these bikes, as with the previous decade's tubular-shod racers, ended up hanging high up in garages with a flat tire, never to be fixed since this might be considered futile.
So we've come quite a ways away from that sad scenario. I fitted 25mm "Hard Case" tires to a customer's 1986 "Dave Scott Ironman" the other day after 28mm Specialized tires did not fit under the rear brake arch.
They were heavy but they were often ideal, overall, for mixed riding.
Then the "lightweight" craze came along, and 27x1-1/4" sort of took over, equivalent to 700x32. Users noted they were far more fragile.
This continued until the de-rigueur tires and rims of road bikes were often narrower than 20mm wide, needing a minimum of perhaps 120psi for an average-sized rider.
Many of these bikes, as with the previous decade's tubular-shod racers, ended up hanging high up in garages with a flat tire, never to be fixed since this might be considered futile.
So we've come quite a ways away from that sad scenario. I fitted 25mm "Hard Case" tires to a customer's 1986 "Dave Scott Ironman" the other day after 28mm Specialized tires did not fit under the rear brake arch.
#49
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If this trend continues, I fully expect to hear from him asking me to change the design of my tire wipers a bit.
Made mostly for 22 to 32 mm tires. He's sold over 300 pairs of them in their current configuration, so I'll try to adapt.
Made mostly for 22 to 32 mm tires. He's sold over 300 pairs of them in their current configuration, so I'll try to adapt.
#50
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I'm running 26 x 2.0 marathon supreme touring tires on my drop bar conversion mtb. The weight isn't bad for a big tire with good puncture resistance (565 grams). Plus they ride great.
Last edited by bikemig; 06-11-15 at 05:02 PM.