Italian Frames/Bikes
#26
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As others pointed out, few Italian bikes have what one would call a relaxed geometry. They typically have racing geometry with steep angles and short wheelbases. Some of the older Italian bikes like Legnanos might fit the bill, but that could require some diligent restoration and searching for odd parts.
Eddy Merckx century frames have a more relaxed geometry but they are not Italian (Belgian) except for very early models made by De Rosa. Merckx frames are not touring geometry, however, and will still have short chain stays, tight clearances for tires and no fender or rack mounts.
If you want a classic road bike with a more relaxed geometry and touring features, I would focus more on British bikes such as Mercian or Bob Jackson, or some of the nicer Japanese touring and sport touring bikes such as Miyata, Lotus, Univega.
Eddy Merckx century frames have a more relaxed geometry but they are not Italian (Belgian) except for very early models made by De Rosa. Merckx frames are not touring geometry, however, and will still have short chain stays, tight clearances for tires and no fender or rack mounts.
If you want a classic road bike with a more relaxed geometry and touring features, I would focus more on British bikes such as Mercian or Bob Jackson, or some of the nicer Japanese touring and sport touring bikes such as Miyata, Lotus, Univega.
#27
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Upon reflection, Bianchi did make some nice sport touring bikes in the 1980s -- complete with Celeste green paint and mounts for fenders. My first nice road bike was a Bianchi Nuovo Record and it had those features, and I many times regretted selling that bike. Used Bianchis are rampant on eBay and Craiglist and you should be able to find a nice sport touring model with some patience.
#28
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While you say you prefer relaxed geometry, do you already have a bike with that? Maybe you should get a tight-geometry bike for quick fun rides. This way, you can appreciate both styles.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
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#29
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While you say you prefer relaxed geometry, do you already have a bike with that? Maybe you should get a tight-geometry bike for quick fun rides. This way, you can appreciate both styles.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
#30
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Anyway, see what's out there. Don't limit your search to a list of brands. You might miss an Olympian or something similar. I rode one of @aixaix's Olympians. It was a rocket!
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#31
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Thank you all - you have definitely given me plenty of bikes and makers to research.
This may be a November purchase - for a winter project because it will take me that long to get the scoop on all the bikes mentioned.
This may be a November purchase - for a winter project because it will take me that long to get the scoop on all the bikes mentioned.
#32
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While you say you prefer relaxed geometry, do you already have a bike with that? Maybe you should get a tight-geometry bike for quick fun rides. This way, you can appreciate both styles.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.
I do have a very cool Supurbe equipped Peloton if I want to have super quick responsiveness.
My Kona is probably a blend of relaxed and responsive. It is super comfortable on Centuries - but quick and nimble.
But - I gravitate to the touring Treks and my Voyageur - and when its built - probably my drop bar conversion Mt bike.
#33
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merckx century is certainly what I would suggest, also. It's going to be more in the range of de rosa or colnago. The Century I had was an amazing frame. I sold it(wish I hadn't, now) because I wanted an all out racing frame. The century, as many of the later steel merckx bikes handled beautifully & could go all day. Merckx Geometry employed a relaxed seat tube angle to smooth out the ride. It varies from model to model, size to size. I put 130 miles of mountains on that bike, in one day. I have never felt as fresh, after such a long, tough ride. On any bike of any material. It truly was a "century" bike.
Last edited by Blue Belly; 06-12-15 at 07:21 PM.
#34
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You mentioned that you would be willing to buy the frame then wait to build it up, that's how I acquired my Italian Bianchi, bought the frameset first about two years ago, and just finished building it in February (actually I haven't shared the finished bike here yet, I need to do that!). Since it sounds like it'll be hard to find the bike you want at that budget I'd recommend this approach
Last edited by coastiescott; 06-12-15 at 08:33 PM.
#35
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#36
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The farther back you go, the more relaxed you're going to get, and still maybe get Italian, if that's what you have your heart set on. Someone mentioned Legnano earlier (although I've never seen one bigger than 58cm; and I've looked).
And I know they don't come up often, but my Grandis (probably a 1971) is pretty relaxed. Mine cost exactly $500, as it happens.
And I know they don't come up often, but my Grandis (probably a 1971) is pretty relaxed. Mine cost exactly $500, as it happens.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
#37
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There are nice Italian bikes out there for $500. Be patient and you'll find one. If you can live with a 25mm tire, most of the older "race" frames are quite comfortable- a bit more sensitive than the touring bikes you mentioned but at the same time more supple on rough roads. Good luck.
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#38
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The more I look, the more I like the Merckx TSX. Maybe a 1990.
I know its Belgian instead of Italian.
I am over 200 lbs - and everything I read seems to point that way.
I know its Belgian instead of Italian.
I am over 200 lbs - and everything I read seems to point that way.
#39
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What about this - my first look at eBay.
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
In Good condition! Chrome in good condition. Some litle spots of use on the frame as I displayed on the pictures.some paint chips.some paint chips are processed with a lacquer pen. See all the pictures and judge for yourself.
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
In Good condition! Chrome in good condition. Some litle spots of use on the frame as I displayed on the pictures.some paint chips.some paint chips are processed with a lacquer pen. See all the pictures and judge for yourself.
- Ready to build the bike of your dreams !!!!
- With this beautiful Vintage steel Eddy Merckx TSX frame fork campagnolo c-c 60cm from the 1986-1987.
- This racing bike had been ownd of a old Belgian semi professional cyclist Eric quina. His name is on the top tube.
- Condition:
- Discription frame
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]seat tube c-top
[/TD]
[TD]61,5cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seat tube c-c
[/TD]
[TD]60cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]top tube
[/TD]
[TD]60cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Head tube lenght
[/TD]
[TD]175mm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Spacing rear drop out
[/TD]
[TD]126mm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]spacing front dropout
[/TD]
[TD]100mm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]number frame
[/TD]
[TD]T A4007
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weight frame and fork
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bottom Braket/Headset
[/TD]
[TD]italian threated campagnolo chorus
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
#40
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Some makes we forget about:
Pogliaghi
Chesini
Fiorelli
Fausto Coppi
Rossin
Picchio
Guerciotti
Basso
The top dogs are Cinelli, De Rosa and Tommasini. Build quality is frequently stunning for any of them.
And, yes, Colnago bikes are twitchy. I can't go more than five miles on mine with out it trying to toss me into the ditch.
Pogliaghi
Chesini
Fiorelli
Fausto Coppi
Rossin
Picchio
Guerciotti
Basso
The top dogs are Cinelli, De Rosa and Tommasini. Build quality is frequently stunning for any of them.
And, yes, Colnago bikes are twitchy. I can't go more than five miles on mine with out it trying to toss me into the ditch.
#41
Senior Member
What about this - my first look at eBay.
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
Eddy Merckx | eBay
Check this one out. It's a TSX that cycled through a couple of times without clearing the reserve. I put a lowball bid in, because the info was scanty and the pictures were lousy, but I suspect it's a good bike. Maybe you can call the guy, his phone # is in the listing.
#42
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Or maybe a Holdsworth?
I have owned a number of Italian "Race" Bike's over the years. Masi's Colnago's and even a Coppi for a brief period. All were pre 1980.
I recently found a 1967 Holdsworth Italia with "relaxed frame geometry" that has become my Grail Bike. It rides like a Rolls and handles like a Mclaren.
Or maybe I'm just getting older.
#43
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Thanks to all. Agreed to buy a beautiful, mid 80s, CIOCC frame from a BF member. Appreciate all comments and knowledge. Now I need to study mid 80's Campy groups/prices, etc.
#44
Senior Member
Also, Mondonico always was advertised as having "stage race geometry," and my two are a bit more laid back than modern roadies. The moniker was supposed to indicate that the bike will feel reasonably comfortable for a TdF or a Giro d'Italia (i.e. for a super-trained rider) and I can say I have been happy on these bikes for 60 milers. More so than my Treks, actually.
I'm well, nothing broken, no sign of concussion. Shoulder is sore, I have a few scrapes, and I totally fractured a Giro helmet. No other apparent damage on the bike - fork seems good, as do the wheels.
But that's why the helmet was there.
Last edited by Road Fan; 06-14-15 at 05:57 AM.
#45
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@Road Fan - Sorry to hear of you loss! Glad you are OK. I understand the mixed feelings. Once in awhile I reflect on my significant accident that took out my Le Champion and wonder if I should even ride some of the ones I have hanging for special rides. Then this issue of wearing out dwindling parts without the consequences of injury. Good thing I am over the hill of my life span!
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Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
#46
Senior Member
Probably Super Record, C-Record, and Croce d'Aune would have been relatively common. On my '84 Mondonico I finally opted for Campy 3x10, of mixed grades but mostly Chorus. It worked perfectly.
#47
Senior Member
@Road Fan - Sorry to hear of you loss! Glad you are OK. I understand the mixed feelings. Once in awhile I reflect on my significant accident that took out my Le Champion and wonder if I should even ride some of the ones I have hanging for special rides. Then this issue of wearing out dwindling parts without the consequences of injury. Good thing I am over the hill of my life span!
#48
Senior Member
What about this - my first look at eBay.
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
In Good condition! Chrome in good condition. Some litle spots of use on the frame as I displayed on the pictures.some paint chips.some paint chips are processed with a lacquer pen. See all the pictures and judge for yourself.
Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay
In Good condition! Chrome in good condition. Some litle spots of use on the frame as I displayed on the pictures.some paint chips.some paint chips are processed with a lacquer pen. See all the pictures and judge for yourself.
- Ready to build the bike of your dreams !!!!
- With this beautiful Vintage steel Eddy Merckx TSX frame fork campagnolo c-c 60cm from the 1986-1987.
- This racing bike had been ownd of a old Belgian semi professional cyclist Eric quina. His name is on the top tube.
- Condition:
- Discription frame
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]seat tube c-top[/TD]
[TD]61,5cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seat tube c-c[/TD]
[TD]60cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]top tube[/TD]
[TD]60cm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Head tube lenght[/TD]
[TD]175mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Spacing rear drop out[/TD]
[TD]126mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]spacing front dropout[/TD]
[TD]100mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]number frame[/TD]
[TD]T A4007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Weight frame and fork[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bottom Braket/Headset[/TD]
[TD]italian threated campagnolo chorus[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
#49
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Wow! Very sorry. Glad you are not injured more seriously.
#50
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Glad you found your Ciocc, but some general comments on this one. I'm interested in trying a Merckx geometry, but not with TSX tubing. It was a thick-walled tube, more so than SL which was 9/6/9. It would make a stiff bike, probably stiffer than I would want. I could see a strong racer needing this tubing, especially in a large frame like this.
It's rep was as being stiffer than SLX, but I doubt most folks could tell it from SLX blind folded (another reason it didn't sell that well or long).
Edit - it's between SLX and SL weight...and it's thinner walled:
https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/col...umbuschart.htm
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 06-14-15 at 08:14 AM.