wsherman21

Hello,

I am in need of advice for fixing the squeal I get in both my front and rear brakes. I know I need to toe in the brake pads, but I don't know how.

Ive read that I may need to actual bend the brake arms?

Heres my set up:

Universal Mod 61 Brakes: Universal brakes

Dia Compe 76 Grey Matter Brake Pads: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o05_s00

Mavic MA 40 Rims - Anondized: VeloBase.com - Component: Mavic MA 40


any help with this is greatly appreciated!!

TimmyT 

To bend the brake arms, use an adjustable spanner. On some types of centerpulls (either Mafac or Universal), the brakes will fail because they are too brittle to be bent. The Weinmann/DiaCompe versions are fine to bend, however.

Bicycle Rim Brakes

SJX426 

@wsherman21 - Been there, done that.
[IMG]P1000591, on Flickr[/IMG]

icepick_trotsky 

You can sand down the pads at a slight angle. Then they're toed in without bending the arms at all.

TimmyT 

BOOM! The knowledge appears.

rootboy 

Yeah. Don't bother, Wsherman21. Got a belt sander? No? Got some course sandpaper and a flat bench? Just work them down a bit. Try. Sand a bit more. Try them again, etc.
Also, it might help to run around the braking surfaces with a small piece-o Scotchbrite pad. To de-glaze them, as it were. Red or gray works well.

nlerner

Bend 'em, I say, but not as much as SJX426 did!

Campagnerdo 

Universal sidepulls, in particular, are known for being brittle and breaking when bent. I have not heard much about bending the centerpulls, but, with said knowledge, I would try to avoid bending them.

davester

Just put some shims in, as mentioned at the end of this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post17899803

I made shims by cutting small strips with tabs (to rest on top of the pad holders) from soft drink cans.

3alarmer 

...either sand the pads with coarse sandpaper (you remove the pads from the brakes and it goes pretty quickly),
or buy some of the new tech pads with the swell cone and cup washers to allow adjustment.

3alarmer 

.
...I have bent a lot of centerpull calipers to toe in over the years, but that was when they were cheaply available as used parts all over the place. I don't usually do it any more.

rustystrings61 

+1 for sanding the brake pads to create toe-in; next best option is the nifty kean-o modern type with funky washers, etc., to create the same effect.

My memory is that Universal calipers in particular are prone to snapping when bent; for that matter, their levers are kinda iffy, too. On the other hand, the Super 69 sidepull is simply cooler than cool, and I wish I still had my old ones.

crank_addict

Do believe there's quite a few threads about squealing brakes but agree with the above on either sanding for the toe-in or beveled / angle washers. Though I say a squealing brake is a 'happy' brake.

I just finished a build with some vintage rims having textured brake surface and using new Mafac racer replacement KoolStop salmon's. That sucker HOWL's! Normally I wouldn't have it but now think it adds to the character. LOL

devinfan

I broke my Universal 61's trying to do this, and I was using very little pressure. Don't do it. They are brittle.

Chombi

Bending caliper arm tips for proper pad toe-in been done by "everyone" at one time or another, without drama and consequences. As long as you do not over do it, in terms of both the amount of bending and how many times you do it, there should be no problem. I bent a jillion of them (mostly cheap Weinmanns) and I am still alive,..........aren't I??

Otis

It IS a problem with Universal calipers. They are brittle and will snap easily in most cases. The 61's especially.

You won't die as it will snap as soon as you do it, not after the fact on the bike.

Chombi

That brittle??..., then I'd be very afraid of even using that Universal brakeset, as just regular flex expected at the calipers from braking might just cause it to snap at the worst time.....

davester

That's not a valid concern for two reasons:

1. Somewhere between thousands and millions of bikes had Universal 61 brakes in the 70s and there was no epidemic of calipers broken during use.

2. Flexing within the elastic limit is not going to cause failure. It's when you go beyond the elastic limit and try to permanently deform a part that the risk of failure goes way up.

Ed.

Some squeal is good. It seems to get the attention of whomever is about to cut you of better than a human scream. DAMHIKT!

Chombi

I agree, but if this breakage did happen with the most minimal of bending, then there is a problem, at least with those particular calipers...... and maybe some other model 61 brakesets. Caliper flex is something that will always ossur to some degree during braking, IMO, especially with these thin sectioned calipers from the past.
I suspect that the ones that did break were either defective, in terms of having voids in their casting or the material might have been contaminated when it was cast.
Gimee you model 61's and I will bend those caliper tips for you...... maybe an experienced hand on such is all that's needed.

Wileyone 

I find that the 61's are very finicky when it comes to pads. I have good luck with the cheapo Jagwire pads. They don't squeal and stop quite well.

Cougrrcj

I just installed more modern Clarks road pads on my '75 Fuji's Dia Comp 610 center-pulls last week. They utilize a sperical washer that allows for pad angle and toe-in. That was fortuitous since my ride the next day was in the rain. I'm sure part of the credit for the better braking was due to new pads (the old ones were rock-hard), but I was also able to install them with a bit of 'toe' as well...

My other road bike ('84 Univega Viva Sport) also is wearing the same Clarks pads on Diacompe G500 sidepulls. I have yet to be caught in the rain on that bike, but I'm sure it will eventually happen...

JohnDThompson 

Yes, that brittle. But they don't break when used as intended. As davester notes:

Chombi

Almost sound like pot metal to me then.....
Or maybe the Italians made them from crashed and toasted Macchi fuselage skins???

wsherman21

Thanks everyone! I sanded the pads down at an angle to creat the "toe" they dont squeal and are stopping as good as ever- now im in the market for angled washers, anyone know where to pick some up?