jmk123

I recently (this spring) started biking again after about 30 years. I'm currently riding the 1977 Schwinn LeTour that I bought used in 1982 or '83 while I was in college. But I'm 53 now, and I don't like the stem shifters - I want brifters.

One option is to add brifters to the LeTour. Last week I located a set of heavily used 3x7 RSX shifters on an out-of-town Craigslist for $20. Paypalled them, they haven't arrived yet so I don't really know the condition. The LeTour is 2x5, but the seller thinks I could get away with it. I could also replace the 5 speed freewheel with a 6. Maybe a 7? or would that require setting the frame spacing wider? I'm going to putter around and see what I can do.

Another option is of course a new bike. But even entry level bikes are $750, and I don't want to go that high. I like older high quality stuff rather than new bottom-of-the-line. And I like the steel frames. Not worried about that last couple pounds - I can lose 3 pounds off my gut for a lot less money and it will benefit me all the time, not just when I'm riding.

So I've been looking for quality steel framed bikes with STI type shifters. So far, here is what I've found:


Centurion Ironman Master, 1986 or 1987. $375. Mostly original, but the DT shifters have been replaced by Sora brifters. The rest of the components are mostly Shimano 600. 2x7 gearing. From what I've seen on the forum this is a great bike with a near cult following.

Bianchi Eros, 1996. $350. Only one picture in the ad, haven't been able to contact the seller. Might be one of those who sells the bike but never pulls the ad. 3x8 gearing. Campy Mirage unless it has been changed. Looks like a sweet bike, but might be unavailable.

Giant Kronos 1996. $325. Haven't gone to see it yet, but looks mostly original. 3x7 gearing, biased to low gears for cruising and hills. Shimano RSX. Touring bike, complete with Giant brand rack on the back.

Trek 320, 1999. $180. Haven't seen it yet, hope to do that tomorrow if the rain holds off. Looks mostly original. 3x8 gearing, Shimano RSX. Very wide gearing range.


The Centurion is clearly the highest quality bike on the list. But it is geared for racing, and I'm not a racer. Its lowest gear is roughly the same as the low gear on the LeTour, and I probably want more for hills. I tend to ride with a slow cadence, and I'm trying to break that for the sake of my knees. High gearing won't help me break that habit.

The Bianchi is also a very nice bike, and the triple in front should give me the low gears I want/need. But unless I get lucky contacting the seller it is probably a mirage.

The Kronos is very definitely a touring bike. Although I'm not a racer, I'm also not going touring. The 3x7 gearing would certainly get me up the hills, and at the high end its a bit faster than the LeTour.

The Trek 320 is a road bike, but not in the same class as the Centurion or even the Bianchi. As far as I can tell, it is still a big step up from the LeTour, and the price is certainly right.

My riding is for fitness and enjoyment. So far I've done 15, 18, 22, 24, and 29 mile rides. All but the 15 were on relatively flat bike trails (former railroad right-of-way, trains don't do hills). The 15 was the most recent - very hilly and by far the toughest. I see myself doing that ride again and trying to improve my time. I can see myself doing 50 mile runs on the flatter trails, but I don't see a century in the near future.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

John

RobbieTunes

Now that we've cleared that up.

If the shifters have been replaced with Sora, you may already have an 8-sp rear, or they've trimmed out one and are using the Sora's with 6 clicks and one "no-go."

1-Check your rear wheel, count the cogs. If there are 7, you may well be able to find wider range cassettes. If there are 8, I probably have one. Sora's are 8-sp and up.

2-If gearing is the only issue, get the Ironman and search for better gearing, rear-wise, maybe even front. I've got a compact front that would likely fit on that, period-correct, but it won't be as pretty as what normally comes on a Master (piece.)

3-but not the least, Welcome to the forum.

You can't PM me, but you may be able to click on my UserID and send an email. I'm available. If not, I'll PM you and send my email. I/We are here to help or fake it well.

ncrnelson

If the dropout spacing on the LeTour is 126 it wouldn't be hard to move some spacers on the rear wheel, re-dish it and put on a 7 speed freewheel and use the RSX brifters. You might also need a newer derailleur, but that's not expensive.

Of the bikes you listed I'd go with the Bianchi first, the Trek second for the price. The Centurion is priced a bit high and the Kronos is a little high as well, though you may be able to negotiate.

oddjob2

The red bottle cage looks cheesy on the yellow Ironman! It is an 8 speed cassette.
As you surmised, I would concur the Bianchi is gone.

I don't know exactly where you're at in the Buckeye state, but if it is anywhere near Chagrin Falls, it does require some low gearing. I have an Ironman in 56cm and trading to a 58cm frame. Great bike, but pretty racy. If you want a more relaxed rider, than the Trek 320 fits the bill.

IMHO, both of the above bikes are priced at FMV.

top506

Once upon a time Soras were 7-speed. I'm hording a pair for a '87 Expert build this winter.
OEM gearing is a starting point. The set-ups I use for NE hills are way different from the way a flatlander bike would be set up. At one time or another my '89 Master has been set up with a 52-42-28 front and a 13-28 rear or a 52-42 front and a 13-24 rear.

Top

USAZorro

Are all these bikes an ideal size for you? Fit should be the #1 concern.

jmk123

The freewheel was replaced with a 7-speed hyperglide when the brifters were added. I'm pretty sure the smallest is 14, the largest is definitely 28.
It looks like I could get a replacement 7-speed with 30, 32, or even 34 teeth on the largest, which would get me a granny gear. IF it turns out that I really need it. I might be worrying over nothing.

The large front chainring is the original bronze colored 53. The small one has been replaced. I think it was originally 42, now it appears to be a 39.
The crankset has a 130mm bolt circle. That means the smallest that would fit is a 38. Not much of a gain over the 39.

Thanks!

jmk123

At this point I'm leaning strongly toward getting the Ironman, but since I'm going to have the brifters anyway I'll probably put them on the LeTour. The dropouts on the LeTour are 120mm, but from reading Sheldon Brown's site, I'm not particularly afraid to set it out to 126. The 27 x 1-1/4 tires would be nice for the Ohio and Erie Canal Towpath (hard packed fine gravel - usually pretty hard when dry, but not smooth). Save the Ironman for pavement.

I rode the Ironman today, and I like it a lot. I've pretty much ruled out the Kronos - too much of a cruiser. I'm going to ride the Trek tomorrow weather permitting. Still no luck contacting the seller of the Bianchi.

jmk123

I thought about converting the front to a triple. Starts adding up though - new chainring, BB, front derailer, rear derailer (long arm for the extra chain), probably new chain.... After riding it today I decided that if I buy it I'll leave it alone for this year and see whether I really need the lower gears.

jmk123

All are 56cm which seems about right for me. I'm not very experienced on the finer points of fit (reach, etc), and might wind up getting a fitting at the LBS.

USAZorro

Occasionally, people ask similar questions, and the sizes of the bikes are all over the map. The fact that none of the bikes got eliminated from consideration by that question is a good sign... doesn't make the selection any easier, but keeps 4 rather good options open. I see you're test-riding as many as you re seriously considering... that's another good-sense decision. I think you're on track to be very happy with the result of your shopping.

Henry III

For the price of converting your Letour to an STI setup I would go with one that's already setup. Go with whatever fits and your budget allows.

wrk101

+ I am all for upgrading vintage steel bikes with STI shifting, I have done it many times for the keeper fleet. BUT, I would start with something A LOT better than a 1977 LeTour. The LeTour from that era was really low end. Even if you score a deal on the parts (which my parts are almost always scores), your time is worth something too. It all starts with the quality of the frame. Throwing parts and $$ at a low end frame does not make sense, when there are so many better choices out there.

Realize you could sell your LeTour in its present state, and pick up a project bike with a much better frame with the proceeds. So it is NOT cheaper to upgrade the LeTour.

My first major upgrade was on my old 1975 college bike. I put a lot of time and money into upgrading it. When I was done, I had a beautiful, bottom of the barrel bike. Worse yet, it was too big for me. That's the last time I made the mistake of putting a lot of upgrades into a bottom end bike.

"I recently (this spring) started biking again after about 30 years. I'm currently riding the 1977 Schwinn LeTour that I bought used in 1982 or '83 while I was in college. But I'm 53 now, and I don't like the stem shifters - I want brifters."

Pick up a used bike with brifters. That is the cheapest option by far.

Trek 320, if it is the right size, is a NO BRAINER.

09box

I'd say the Bianchi. Worse case scenario, at least the Campy shifters can be rebuilt..

jmk123

No brainer because of the price? Or no brainer because its a really nice bike?

At this point it is narrowed down to the Trek and the Centurion. If we don't have yet another thunderstorm I hope to test ride the Trek tonight.

The Centurion has high end (600) components, a very good frame, and a good reputation. But twice the price. And the gearing range is virtually identical to my LeTour (14 vs 10 speeds, but the top and bottom ends are the same).

The Trek is half the price, and has a much wider range of gearing: 25% higher at the top, and 23% lower at the bottom. But it has low end components (RSX), and no "reputation", whatever that is worth.

The Centurion is also about 14 years older. I really don't know if that is good or bad. Some things were better "back in the day". Others not so much. How does a 1985 Shimano 600 group compare to a 1999 RSX group?

As you can probably tell I'm having a hard time with this.

upthywazzoo 

I love Treks and I would still take an IM Master over a 320. I feel like.... the high end race bike has more "headroom". Potential for growth, perhaps.

peugeot mongrel

After you ride the Trek decide which one you enjoyed the ride better? Which felt better shifting? Which seemed in the better condition? Go with your gut. Both are a good bike.

The group level of the 600, Sora & RSX is probably less important than how the brifters feel when shifting.



I pearsonaly would go with the IM Master also.

wrk101

If they were the same or close in price, you bet. IM is 2.5 higher price, with bottom end SORA STI. Meanwhile, Trek should be 7 speed, with all matching RSX (low end too) parts. RSX STI are better than 7 speed SORA IMHO.

Comparing bikes at two dramatically different price points? Go figure, the more expensive one is better.

A nice Letour could bring anywhere from $100 to $150. So perhaps for $30 more, you have a much nicer Trek with STI.

If funds are not limiting, I would go with the IM, but then I would be shopping for some nice 8 speed Shimano 600 Tricolor STI ($100 to $150 more). And then you need an 8 speed rear wheel, 8 speed cassette and chain. And so it goes.

No need to debate it, if you are in an active market, the Trek should be gone by now.

upthywazzoo 

Heh. If it were me, I'd negotiate down a bit, then sell off every part, perhaps for the crankset/bb/headset/bars, then upgrade to 5800 and new wheels......

But yes, the Trek is probably better immediate value. My perspective is--I'd rather put new parts on a Mustang than a Corolla.

wrk101

Actually Trek is 8 speed, which gives it another nod value wise at that price.

oddjob2

I would dump the LeTour and buy both the Trek and the IM. I wouldn't upgrade anything at all unless it was no longer functioning. In a year decide whether you want to keep them both or let one go. Assuming you get about 10% at purchase and keep them clean, you won't lose any serious money on reselling either.

jmk123

Apparently our market isn't that active. The Trek has been on CL for 23 days. He told me he's gotten several emails but I'm the first person to actually come out and take a look at the bike.

I doubt I would get $100-$150 for my LeTour. It was repainted sometime between manufacture in 1977 and when I bought it in 82 or 83. The Schwinn and LeTour decals are gone. It still has LeTour markings on the components, and the serial number identifies it. Paint is showing its age, many tiny rust spots. Would probably clean up with some effort, but at least right now I wouldn't call it "nice".

Funny, I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. The Trek is a Corolla - versatile, reliable, but not particularly exciting. The IM is a Porsche - expensive, maybe a bit temperamental, only good for one thing, but not boring.

Riding the Trek simply confirmed that - it certainly isn't a bad bike, but it is significantly heavier than the IM, and just didn't seem as "lively".

I have nothing against Corollas (I drive one every day), but in this case I decided I'd rather ride the Porsche. Tonight we settled on $360 and I brought home the Centurion. I'll post some pics in a few days.

That thought has crossed my mind. I'm definitely not going to mess with the IM until I've ridden it for a while. The seller of the Trek is going out of town for a week starting Friday. I'll think it over for a week and see what bubbles to the surface when he gets back.


Thanks for all the input guys, it certainly helped me figure things out.

jetboy 

be sure to add to the Ironman thread with pictures, id be interested in seeing the the brifter set up.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-jobs-26.html

welcome to the cult.. I think some people are getting tattoos.... and there is this thing called "tang" that they keep handing out at meetings.

RobbieTunes

Your path is now clearer. Good choice in the long run, Short of having an expert next door, this is the place to get help with advice, parts, and info on that Ironman. Probably the best source there is; right here.

My first impression is get the Ironman and the Trek, put the RSX 7-sp (metal stuff, very good) shifters on the Ironman and ride the tar out of it.
Rebuild the Trek with whatever rolls and sell it.

wvridgerider

The Bianchi is a nice bike,I purchased a used one two years ago and rode it for a year and the frame cracked. The frame will fit 28's if you are riding a rail trail. Once you decide you are back to riding just drop the cash on a newer bike. You can slowly buy used parts and then pick up a Surly Crosscheck. You can get that frame and fork for a good price . Good luck