Painting Question-Kinda
06-23-15, 02:37 PM
#1
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Painting Question-Kinda
As I look toward painting, base & clearcoat, of my Miyata 610 I have a question. Would there be any benefit in making an "oven"? By this I mean making a box to hod the fork and frame after the painting is complete and rig a heater to "bake" the finish.
Thoughts??
Thanks!
Thoughts??
Thanks!
06-23-15, 02:42 PM
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Paging @Lascauxcaveman
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06-23-15, 03:24 PM
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Paging @Lascauxcaveman
So far, I've only gone this far - setting up the freshly painted frame and fork on the woodstove to cure:
There are other guys here who've painted a lot more frames than I have. Paging @sloar
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Last edited by Lascauxcaveman; 06-23-15 at 03:28 PM.
06-23-15, 03:49 PM
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Paint a bike box black. Hang the painted frame in the box. Sit the box in the sun or a day. Poof, bakabikarama...
Oh, by the way, make sure the box is anchored so that it won't all over.
Oh, by the way, make sure the box is anchored so that it won't all over.
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06-23-15, 03:58 PM
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The primary reason for heat application after painting is because you used an epoxy paint. Epoxy paints are slightly exothermic but generally benefit from some initial heat - about what you get from a 100 watt light. Otherwise, recommend you contact the manufacturer for info regarding accelerated curing.
Last edited by Kitsap; 06-23-15 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Spelling
06-23-15, 04:37 PM
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I live in the southeastern US, so it's a paint oven in itself...
06-23-15, 04:40 PM
#7
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If you use a quality base coat and clear, allow plenty of curing time between coats, baking the paint is not necessary.
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06-23-15, 04:42 PM
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The primary reason for heat application after painting is because you used an epoxy paint. Epoxy paints are slightly exothermic but generally benefit from some initial heat - about what you get from a 100 watt light. Otherwise, recommend you contact the manufacturer for info regarding accelerated curing.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
06-23-15, 04:48 PM
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I agree when using spray cans. But when your mixing the paint for sprayguns you use hardening agents to mix with the paint and clear.
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06-23-15, 04:49 PM
#11
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Air cured paints will never be as hard as catalyzed paint even if you bake it. Factory applied bike paint is all catalyzed. There are three ways to apply catalyzed paint: With a spray-gun and compressor (best), Preval sprayer (OK if you know what you are doing), a 'one-shot' can (expensive).
Last edited by Fissile; 06-23-15 at 04:56 PM.
06-23-15, 04:54 PM
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How come we can say gun now? Gun!
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06-23-15, 05:26 PM
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Air cured paints will never be as hard as catalyzed paint even if you bake it. Factory applied bike paint is all catalyzed. There are three ways to apply catalyzed paint: With a spray-gun and compressor (best), Preval sprayer (OK if you know what you are doing), a 'one-shot' can (expensive).
There are so many paint products that can be used paint a frame, but the catalyzed paints (or powdercoat) are the way to go if you want a really durable finish.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
06-23-15, 06:36 PM
#15
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All good points, and to a casual hobbyist who has never painted a bike frame, expense will be an issue if you want to do it right. The "one shot" catalyzed paint cans I've seen are around $20-30 (and you might need more than one can), buying paint+catalyst from an auto paint store is going to run around $50-70 (1 quart minimum - although if you know someone who works for a auto body shop, you might get them to sell you only what you need for cheaper) and of course you need to have a compressor and spray gun.
There are so many paint products that can be used paint a frame, but the catalyzed paints (or powdercoat) are the way to go if you want a really durable finish.
There are so many paint products that can be used paint a frame, but the catalyzed paints (or powdercoat) are the way to go if you want a really durable finish.
Take the pain out of spraying. ? Preval
06-23-15, 08:55 PM
#16
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If you know somebody who works at an autobody shop I don't think I would bother asking them for a small quantity of paint, I'd hand them my frame and have them put it in the booth and shoot it the next time they painted a car. Should be cheap enough if they were already painting something and the color was agreeable to you.
Can we say shoot?
Can we say shoot?
06-23-15, 10:39 PM
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You can use a Preval sprayer (available at DIY home centers) to mix and spray small quantities. The Preval works alright IF you get the mix thinned properly, a trial and error process.
Take the pain out of spraying. ? Preval
Take the pain out of spraying. ? Preval
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
06-23-15, 10:46 PM
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06-24-15, 05:10 AM
#19
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Most auto body supply places WILL sell color coat by the pint, although primer and clear is usually only offered by the quart. Quart quantities of primer and clear are not a problem for me because I paint other stuff besides bike frames. You can usually find small quantities of auto paint on eBay, along with other auto body supplies.
06-24-15, 05:25 AM
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yes, it helps the primer/paint/clear coat cure faster and you can sand and do a second coat faster. 2K paints i've used all recommend curing at 60 Celsius.
i've used a bike box, cut a hole on one end at the bottom for shooting hot air in from my space heater, and a couple of holes up high on the other end for air flow.
i hang the bike using a seat post through a hole in the top - be casreful not to touch the sides (doh!)
i've had really good experiences with 2K primer and cleat coat out of the 1-time cans, with metallic auto paint in the middle. best to be ready with a couple of frames to reduce waste on the 2K products, as one 400ml can is enough for 2 bikes.
i've used a bike box, cut a hole on one end at the bottom for shooting hot air in from my space heater, and a couple of holes up high on the other end for air flow.
i hang the bike using a seat post through a hole in the top - be casreful not to touch the sides (doh!)
i've had really good experiences with 2K primer and cleat coat out of the 1-time cans, with metallic auto paint in the middle. best to be ready with a couple of frames to reduce waste on the 2K products, as one 400ml can is enough for 2 bikes.
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06-24-15, 07:52 AM
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When I get to the point of painting my project bike, I am going to allow it to dry, and then put it into the back of my CX-7 on a warm, sunny day. The solarization in the vehicle should do a wonderful job of baking the finish.
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06-24-15, 07:58 AM
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My experience with frames painted by auto body shops has been very poor - flakes or chips off very easily, and the finish is not very good. People I know who have used auto paint on their own have had similar results.
My own experiments with hardware-store brand rust paint on a completely stripped steel frame have been much more positive. My son's about-to-be-outgrown bike has a few chips missing here and there, but that is after three years of being ridden and abused by a little boy.
My own experiments with hardware-store brand rust paint on a completely stripped steel frame have been much more positive. My son's about-to-be-outgrown bike has a few chips missing here and there, but that is after three years of being ridden and abused by a little boy.
06-24-15, 08:02 AM
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The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington engineering mid term. The answer was so profound that the Professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well. Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or Endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:
- If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
- Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
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06-24-15, 08:26 AM
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MY brother in law runs a high end, very busy body shop. He's been a painter for decades, before being the manager. His advice on my spraying my bike frames has made a huge improvement in how hard the finished paint job is.
Paint it at the temperature the can says to do it at.
Then if you bake it too fast the outer layer of paint dries faster than the inside layers closer to the metal. This keeps the paint trapped by the cured top layer from ever drying. And, of course it stays soft forever. This is more critical if you put on a thick coat of paint.
Paint the frame and let it cure for a few days with out baking. I did one of my frames in the garage and let it cure in the garage in the winter. He said that was the best thing to do for the paint. He was right, I did this for each layer and the paint was much harder.
He says after painting the best thing for the paint is to put it in the frame in a refrigerator and let it dry slowly to get the inside layers close to the metal dry completely. He does all kinds of high end restoration paint and body work on expensive cars.
Paint it at the temperature the can says to do it at.
Then if you bake it too fast the outer layer of paint dries faster than the inside layers closer to the metal. This keeps the paint trapped by the cured top layer from ever drying. And, of course it stays soft forever. This is more critical if you put on a thick coat of paint.
Paint the frame and let it cure for a few days with out baking. I did one of my frames in the garage and let it cure in the garage in the winter. He said that was the best thing to do for the paint. He was right, I did this for each layer and the paint was much harder.
He says after painting the best thing for the paint is to put it in the frame in a refrigerator and let it dry slowly to get the inside layers close to the metal dry completely. He does all kinds of high end restoration paint and body work on expensive cars.