ob2s 

I bought a simplex derailleur from france for my PX10 build but I am not sure how to mount it.
Here is a picture of it with it mounting capabilities shown.


Here is the mount point on the frame (it is threaded, but not relevant to my query)


Here is where I attach it, but I can't make it tight since I can only use my finger nails to tighten the nut.


I know I need to use the spring to make the derailleur be in the full clockwise direction (looking at the chainring side), but I am not sure how to do that.

I bought a second derailleur (also from france) just for what I thought was a the correct 'washer', the thing with tabs, but that is not a removable 'washer' and also if I could remove it, there would not be enough room to get the stupid nut on the original derailleur.


I don't want to use the derailleur with the washer as it is not as good. I have new ball bearing rollers on the one I want to use and it is a super LJ, but I can't figure out what I need to do to mount it properly. Any ideas ?

Thanks

juvela

this model of simplex dropout comes with an unthreaded hole. someone has modified it to add those theads. if you examine them closely i think you will find they exhibit no chrome plating. the derailleur mounting bolt is to be held in by the nut and not by the threads.

ob2s 

thanks, i guess i should have said the threads are irrelevant

1simplexnut

Looks to me like the derailleur with the nut would originally had a hanger for a frame without a hanger point on the frame ?
The second derailleur should work just fine on the hanger you have ?

Ignore the first derailleur and use the second . Job done :-)

1simplexnut

would have had hanger like this . I have a couple with that exact nut

Not designed to go on a hanger like yours

ob2s 

Crap. Thanks

verktyg 

The unthreaded holes in Simplex dropout derailleur hangers are 9mm.

Even it the dropout has been tapped to 10mm x 1 or Campy 10mm x 26TPI the minor diameter of those threads are still going to be close to 9mm so there's no problem using the standard Simplex mounting bolt.



The problem the OP is running into is that his first derailleur from France was designed to use a "claw" derailleur hanger. They wont work with an integral dropout hanger.



Here's a parts breakdown that shows the difference between the upper pivots bolts on a Simplex SX410 derailleurs.



If the OP had two derailleurs that were the same model, he could probably switch out the pivot bolts to get the first derailleur to fit.

Unfortunately, in his divine wisdom, Lucien Juy the founder of Simplex never saw fit to make anything simple or easily adaptable. They changed parts and designs and model numbers every few years. Is it wrong, or just French???


@ob2s says:

"I don't want to use the derailleur with the washer as it is not as good. I have new ball bearing rollers on the one I want to use and it is a super LJ, but I can't figure out what I need to do to mount it properly."

The derailleur in the first picture isn't a Super LJ, it's a SX410 or similar model. Sellers on eBay who DON'T know better tend to call any metal Simplex derailleur a Super LJ! (LJ = Lucien Juy)

BTW, the Simplex parts lists show a claw hanger for all the Super LJ derailleurs but I've never seen one...

With better pictures of the 2 derailleurs I could probably figure out a solution...

Check out all of my messages in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-capacity.html

verktyg

Chas.

ob2s 

Thanks for the encyclopedic detail it is very much appreciated. I have a mavic rim with a period cyclo 64 freewheel with 25 teeth, but I also have a mavic rim with a maillard freewheel with 32 teeth. So I need to restart my search in earnest and with lots of money as I'd like to use both rims as needed.

John E

To accommodate that 32-tooth cog you will need a derailleur with a long cage and a pivot-aligned jockey pulley. A regular short cage Simplex with the cage pivot between the pulleys is limited to 26 or 28 teeth, depending on how it is mounted.

John E

That's why he named the company Simplex. (SIMple / comPLEX? )

SJX426 

Or SIMply comPLEX. Inventors and engineering types back in the day rarely thought about the service and support/maintenance from the customers point of view. Functionality, sure. But why be constrained with compatibility and why not fix what ain't broke? Are APPLE power cords different from all other devices?

Grand Bois

Since you hanger has been tapped, you could use a long cage Shimano Crane or first generation Campy Rally without further modification. Long cage Simplex derailers are not easy to find. I have one and I'm not impressed by its operation.

ob2s 

Yes, I have my eye on a long cage Simplex. In my PX10 build the only things I have allowed on the bike that aren't french are the tires (czech), grease&spokes (swiss) and the pump clips (italy). Bearing, nuts, cable housings are all french as well. When I started this, I had no idea I would be looking at period water bottles for $100.... So France > Smooth Operation

Grand Bois

I think the long cage I have is an SX810. Unfortunately, it has a claw mount. I tried swapping the long cage to an SX610. No go.

Good for you for keeping it French!

verktyg 

Not necessarily....

Read my string of messages in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-capacity.html

"Some" regular cage length Simplex derailleurs can handle 32T FWs, even the old Delrin plastic Prestige model - scourge of the bike boom!

I'm running a 13-32T 6 speed on this bike perfectly:



This SX610 index shifts a 12-32T 8 speed cassette (with some slight modifications to the derailleur for indexing):


@ob2s

As I mentioned in a previous message, post some pictures - front and rear of the derailleurs that you have and I may be able to help you modify one to work on your PX-10.


@Grand Bois

yes, both the Rally and Crane will work but that's taking the easy way out...

verktyg

Chas.

ob2s 

Here they are

John E

You da man, Chas! Very impressive capacity stretch.

verktyg 

Thanks @John E

It's actually a 12-30T but it will handle a 32T. One secret, I'm running 47-39T up front...

When you try to run something like a 53-42T you'll only be able to hit about 3/4 of the ratios. A 52 or 53T x 32T is probably too much of a stretch for a regular arm derailleur.

Several years ago I was on a CR ride and there were not one, but two bikes running standard Campy NR derailleurs with 34T FWs!!! They're rated at 26T max!



Soooo, as in my tag line: Don't believe everything you think!


verktyg

Chas.

Grand Bois

Why don't you swap the mounting hardware and use the SX410? It's a simple matter to swap the pulleys. The Simplex tag can be removed with some heat and reapplied to the SX410 with some sort of adhesive. I use hot glue.

ob2s 

I thought of that but really like the simplex logo 'engraved' in the metal. the SX410 has no markings at all on it.

verktyg 

The SX410 is probably a better derailleur than the mystery one (at least in better condition).



The mystery derailleur has a crack in the Delrin in the rear parallelogram arm. There's metal on both sides but it could became a problem.

More importantly someone has cobbled this derailleur together. It was probably an SX410 from the late 1970's. It has the silly assed CPSC "safety" cable clamping screw.

The big thing is the cage is off of a 1972 Simplex Prestige derailleur - see 1-72 date code.



The pivot point on the SX410 is lower than the kluged together one. That gives more FW tooth capacity!

You can switch the ball bearing pulleys plus maybe the inner cage off of the bâtard (meaning parents were not legally married in French)...

The bâtard was probably an SX410 that got sucked into the spokes and someone "repaired" it with the old cage. That could be how the Delrin cracked too.

The rear part of the real SX410 was designed to keep the cage from being sucked into the spokes (a factory kludge).

You can get Simplex or even mo betta, Peugeot replacement stickers on eBay:

Simplex Gipiemme Edco Peugeot Spidel Replacement Decal Choices One Set Only | eBay

I'd try the SX410, you might be pleasantly surprised. They were mid range derailleurs but because the steel cages are more rigid than aluminum alloy they power shift great!


Editorial... A lot of eBay sellers from France don't have a clue - they guess a lot about items that were made long before they were even a gleam in their père's eye! (read - hipster)

Take what they claim with a grain of salt and do your own research!!!


verktyg

Chas.

Grand Bois

I agree with chas. except for using those crappy vinyl stickers. I paid less for original style aluminum tags on eBay. All of my SX and SLJ derailleurs have new tags.

Like I said, you can remove the old tag with some heat and glue it to the SX410.

rootboy 

Neat picture.

verktyg 

@Grand Bois wrote:

"Why don't you swap the mounting hardware and use the SX410? It's a simple matter to swap the pulleys."

It get's a little tricky.... it's a 3 handed job. There are flats on the end of the pivot bolt that the stop plate fits over.



The pivot bolt is hollow and the sides get rounded out easily and the stop ceases to function. I've repaired a number of these with a prick punch (note: this is a later model derailleur pictured):



You put a 6mm hex key in the pivot bolt. fit the hole in the stop plate over the spring and slide it over the end of the bolt while keeping it tensioned - 3 hands!

It was a piss poor design that Simplex used for years!


@ob2s If that's what your SX410 has, you can gently pry the stop plate off of the pivot bolt. If unsure, don't mess with it.


The kludged SX410 is from ~1977, here's a picture from the catalog showing one with a claw hanger and the Simplex "sun" logo on the knuckles - note 30T capacity (it can handle 32T):



You might want to watch US eBay, these derailleurs come up pretty often and sometimes sell cheap. You can also chunk out $100 and get a true Super LJ but check out my post about the different models for range and capacity.

verktyg

Chas.

ob2s 

do you think it is possible to do 32T with the non-kludged sx410
my nos stronglight period crankset is 52/42
I have my eye and will need to reach for the checkbook on one of these slj5500