A seriously failed experiment
06-30-15, 07:37 PM
#26
aka Tom Reingold
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
06-30-15, 08:29 PM
#27
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Shimano uses a lot of oversized cones on various hubs. Unfortunately they don't always list the sizes in the spec sheets.
Perhaps the Shimano FH-7800 left cone?
New Shimano Dura Ace Rear Hub Freehub FH 7800 Left Cone w Seal | eBay
Is that 11mm or 12mm?
Once you can locate a cone, it should be relatively easy to cut an axle to match... if it doesn't fit.
Perhaps you could find a really good LBS that would allow you to poke around their spare parts bin.
Perhaps the Shimano FH-7800 left cone?
New Shimano Dura Ace Rear Hub Freehub FH 7800 Left Cone w Seal | eBay
Is that 11mm or 12mm?
Once you can locate a cone, it should be relatively easy to cut an axle to match... if it doesn't fit.
Perhaps you could find a really good LBS that would allow you to poke around their spare parts bin.
06-30-15, 09:18 PM
#28
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Oops, sorry, I see it is 11mm.
I'm seeing several 11mm Shimano cones.
Shimano DH 3N72 DH 2N72 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
Shimano DH 3D30 QR Dynamo Hub Cone M11X13MM w Dust Cover | eBay
Shimano Alfine DH S700 DH 1D70 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
It looks like they are from the Shimano Dynamo hubs. The cones do look a bit thick though
Apparently made for a dozen 3/16 ball bearings.
I'm seeing several 11mm Shimano cones.
Shimano DH 3N72 DH 2N72 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
Shimano DH 3D30 QR Dynamo Hub Cone M11X13MM w Dust Cover | eBay
Shimano Alfine DH S700 DH 1D70 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
It looks like they are from the Shimano Dynamo hubs. The cones do look a bit thick though
Apparently made for a dozen 3/16 ball bearings.
Last edited by CliffordK; 06-30-15 at 09:25 PM.
07-01-15, 04:51 AM
#29
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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Oh great, another 11mm.
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jimmuller
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With great bikes comes great responsibility.
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07-13-15, 06:23 PM
#30
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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More follow-up, in case anyone is interested
First, thanks for the links. They may be worth checking out.
Back on June 28 I wrote that I'd installed the new Olympia axle with the old cones and positioned the cones such that the developing pit would be unloaded. Well, we've ridden more than 250 miles since then. The results seem pretty good so far. With about 15 miles to go on our return home this past Sunday we hit a depression in the pavement really hard, one of those gas line access caps which leaves a hole in the pavement about 5 inches across. We were flying down a hill and I saw it at the last second, swerved enough to miss it with the front wheel but the rear wheel slammed into it dead on. A few blocks later we came to a natural stopping place and I cursorily examined everything. My sweetie was sure we'd knocked a wheel out of true, but noop, everything seemed fine.
So this evening I pulled the wheel off the bike with the intention of pulling the bearings. When I spun the axle everything seemed normal. No visible wobble in the axle, no tight spots in the rotation, no odd noises, no looseness in the bearings. If we bent the axle it wasn't enough to see, unlike other hubs I've seen where the axle wobble was quite obvious.
So it appears all is well for now and the Olympia axle has passed the test. Of course we aren't a heavy team, but so far, so good!
I intend to monitor it and possibly (when I have more time) pull the axle and swap out the bearing cones for the other set that Benji at Treatland sent me. At least for now we are still rolling and the prognosis is good.
Back on June 28 I wrote that I'd installed the new Olympia axle with the old cones and positioned the cones such that the developing pit would be unloaded. Well, we've ridden more than 250 miles since then. The results seem pretty good so far. With about 15 miles to go on our return home this past Sunday we hit a depression in the pavement really hard, one of those gas line access caps which leaves a hole in the pavement about 5 inches across. We were flying down a hill and I saw it at the last second, swerved enough to miss it with the front wheel but the rear wheel slammed into it dead on. A few blocks later we came to a natural stopping place and I cursorily examined everything. My sweetie was sure we'd knocked a wheel out of true, but noop, everything seemed fine.
So this evening I pulled the wheel off the bike with the intention of pulling the bearings. When I spun the axle everything seemed normal. No visible wobble in the axle, no tight spots in the rotation, no odd noises, no looseness in the bearings. If we bent the axle it wasn't enough to see, unlike other hubs I've seen where the axle wobble was quite obvious.
So it appears all is well for now and the Olympia axle has passed the test. Of course we aren't a heavy team, but so far, so good!
I intend to monitor it and possibly (when I have more time) pull the axle and swap out the bearing cones for the other set that Benji at Treatland sent me. At least for now we are still rolling and the prognosis is good.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
07-28-15, 06:35 PM
#31
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Ok, working on my Gitane.
I decided to buy a pair of the Shimano cones.
Shimano DH 3N72 DH 2N72 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
As mentioned earlier, the Shimano cones are apparently designed for 3/16" balls, while the Gitane cones use 7/32 balls.
The threading for the axle is a good match.
It appears as if the 7/32 balls barely fit into the radius.
Dimension of the cones are slightly different.
Width (easy to adjust with spacers)
Gitane:13.25mm
Shimano:12.15mm (note, the DH-3D30-QR cone was supposed to be 13mm (long?), but I didn't like the looks of the grinding/polishing).
Outside Diameter:
Gitane:18mm
Shimano: 17.4mm
Diameter at smallest radius: ***
Gitane: 14.3
Shimano: 15.08
Smaller diameter at wear track (Gitane) 14.75 ***
*** I haven't tried to build up the hub yet, but this clearance may be an issue. Measuring to the wear track may be appropriate, especially as the ground part of the Gitane cones looks excessively long. But, I'm thinking the bearings may be just a little bit too big.
7/32 bearings: 5.556mm
5.5mm bearings - available
13/64, 5.159mm bearings - available
5mm bearings - available
3/16 bearings - 4.762mm
The 13/64" bearing may be a close match. I'd like to try something more like 5.25mm or 5.35mm, but I'm only seeing them listed by the ton
Maybe once I polish the cones (and races if possible), then a true 5.5mm bearing will fit.
I decided to buy a pair of the Shimano cones.
Shimano DH 3N72 DH 2N72 Dynamo Hub Cone M11X12 1mm w Dust Cover | eBay
As mentioned earlier, the Shimano cones are apparently designed for 3/16" balls, while the Gitane cones use 7/32 balls.
The threading for the axle is a good match.
It appears as if the 7/32 balls barely fit into the radius.
Dimension of the cones are slightly different.
Width (easy to adjust with spacers)
Gitane:13.25mm
Shimano:12.15mm (note, the DH-3D30-QR cone was supposed to be 13mm (long?), but I didn't like the looks of the grinding/polishing).
Outside Diameter:
Gitane:18mm
Shimano: 17.4mm
Diameter at smallest radius: ***
Gitane: 14.3
Shimano: 15.08
Smaller diameter at wear track (Gitane) 14.75 ***
*** I haven't tried to build up the hub yet, but this clearance may be an issue. Measuring to the wear track may be appropriate, especially as the ground part of the Gitane cones looks excessively long. But, I'm thinking the bearings may be just a little bit too big.
7/32 bearings: 5.556mm
5.5mm bearings - available
13/64, 5.159mm bearings - available
5mm bearings - available
3/16 bearings - 4.762mm
The 13/64" bearing may be a close match. I'd like to try something more like 5.25mm or 5.35mm, but I'm only seeing them listed by the ton
Maybe once I polish the cones (and races if possible), then a true 5.5mm bearing will fit.
07-28-15, 09:14 PM
#32
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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Interesting report, CK.
FWIW, I installed those "other" cones from Treatland on the tandem last week and we put in about 85 miles this weekend. It appears that no new free play developed in the bearings. So for now it appears they didn't wear away.
FWIW, I installed those "other" cones from Treatland on the tandem last week and we put in about 85 miles this weekend. It appears that no new free play developed in the bearings. So for now it appears they didn't wear away.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
07-28-15, 09:27 PM
#33
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Well, good luck with that cone/axle. I'll keep the fingers crossed.
The right race on mine somehow got a pretty serious scratch/pit in it, so I have to decide what to do with that hub. Perhaps I can replace the race too. I have a similar drum hub, but with a 10mm axle that may get pressed into use, or perhaps have one working hub built out of two.
The right race on mine somehow got a pretty serious scratch/pit in it, so I have to decide what to do with that hub. Perhaps I can replace the race too. I have a similar drum hub, but with a 10mm axle that may get pressed into use, or perhaps have one working hub built out of two.
07-29-15, 03:44 AM
#34
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Indeed. The challenge is fun; heck, it's a C&V project after all.
But also I know nothing about modern hubs other than that 135mm hubs exist. I may have to give up the hub brake because I don't know how a disk caliper would attach to the frame and I don't know if drum brakes exist any more. Online searches produce mostly S-A IGH hubs with internal brake.
Since it isn't a crisis situation I'm taking the interesting route.
But also I know nothing about modern hubs other than that 135mm hubs exist. I may have to give up the hub brake because I don't know how a disk caliper would attach to the frame and I don't know if drum brakes exist any more. Online searches produce mostly S-A IGH hubs with internal brake.
Since it isn't a crisis situation I'm taking the interesting route.
