tonupbandit

Hi all,

Posted a few weeks ago about a Ciocc I picked up on Ebay asking about the umlaut and whether external bb would work. It showed up the other day and I'm pretty happy with it. Paint still has gloss on it, chrome is in good shape. Now I'd like a bit of help learning about it. Here's what I know and/or think I know:

• Mid 80s frame
• TSD bike -- has the panto cyclist on the brake bridge
• SL frame -- blue bordered columbus sticker, no rifling in the seat tube, rifling in the steerer. This leads me to believe it's not an SL/SP frame. Also takes a 27.2 post.
• Full chromed rear triangle and campagnolo dropouts, front and rear -- also leads me to believe it's a mid to higher level frame
• Panto fork crown, sloping. Somewhere I read that there are two types of pantographing found on Ciocc forks, one in which the club is raised? Is that an older fork, or a mid 80s?

That's it. So, I know it might be hard to figure out a year on it, maybe not even possible, but I figured maybe someone here owned one of these or just has enough Ciocc knowledge to tell me. Also, at what point did the head badging change from letters to the card suits, or vice versa? I think the letters predate the cards, but I'm not certain.

At this point all I've done to it is slosh around a good amount of linseed oil inside all of the tubes except for the seat stays--no holes there--and press the King headset in. I have a Sram Rival 10 speed group that I'll hang on it this week.







Thanks for help or thoughts any of you might have!

horatio 

Can't wait to see the build.

Fahrenheit531 

I'll sit here and learn right along with ya. Very cool frame.

TickDoc

Afraid I've got nothing to help you out, but that is very sharp and I love the color. Hard to tell from the pics but condition looks to pretty good. What size is it?

Congrats and keep those pics coming!

TimmyT 

Choke 

I used to own one that was supposedly from 1985. The differences I see from yours are:

'Card suits' on the headtube.
BB cable routing is a bit different, mine had metal tabs over the grooves.
Different fork crown but with same engraving. (Though oddly the heart and diamond were on opposite sides, even though they were on the same side as yours in the decals.)
No engraving on the brake bridge.
No idea if it's there since the pics don't show it but mine had a club cutout on the lower headtube lug.

I'm pretty sure the Ciöcc lettering pre-dated the 'card suits' on the headtube, but like many Italian builders nothing was set in stone....details that were used earlier might surface later when a stock of something was found hidden on a shelf.

I've read it wasn't uncommon for Ciöcc to mix SP stays with an SL triangle, especially in the larger sizes.

Nice bike...congrats.

Lascauxcaveman 

Yum.

OldsCOOL

This is going to be good.

tonupbandit

It's in beautiful shape. Someone either babied it or it was a floor model. A few small scuffs here and there, one decal tear on the non-drive down tube, and some spotting on the chrome--not rust, and not pitting, just those tiny off-color dots that appear. I hit those gently with some very fine steel wool and some went away, but I don't want to really lay into them because I don't want to put fine scratches in the chrome. It was listed on Ebay as a 56, but I measure it as a 57 ST CTC and 57 TT CTC. That's a bonus to me--I prefer a 57 or 58 but liked this frame so much I thought, meh, I can ride a 56. So to have it measure to 57 is perfect!

Pics will be coming, and under better light! Was pouring rain here yesterday so couldn't get it outside for good shots.

tonupbandit

Thanks for posting this, TimmyT! I saw this brochure just recently after buying the frame, and when I saw it I thought "that's exactly my frame." But mine's not SLX. Haven't been able to find any brochure-ware or ads of this bike with the full chromed stays in SL, though. I did wind up coming across this one though: '83 Ciöcc Designer 84 Microf C.40 ~ 62cm C-C ~ Columbus SL Tubing Same bike, same Columbus sticker. To be honest, though, I'm not that broken up about it not being an SLX frame -- I run a bit big, weighing in right around 200, + or - depending on how many pints I've had! SL frames always seemed to just feel right to me, and SLXs a little to whippy. That being said, I don't have a whole lot of experience with SLX, just test rides in my former life as a wrench.

tonupbandit

Haha. Yeah I'm pretty excited for this one.

tonupbandit

Thanks, Choke!

It's not I love those cutouts and wish it had them, but oh well. I'm still happy.

I've read this, too. So far as I can tell there's no for sure way to tell, but I'm no expert. Either way the frame feels light and from what I've read about these bikes I suspect it's going to handle like its on rails.

OldsCOOL

Seems we have a strong Italian surge here lately.

peugeot mongrel

The earlier ones didn't have the long tail C. Mine is late 70s best I can tell and has a few details I have yet to find on another bike.









These decals & paint are not original



And climb like a goat!
My Ciöcc is noticeably more responsive and tracks better than my Colnago or my Coppi, at least to me. All of them fit me the same. Enjoy that fine ride!

repechage

How are you going to address the 130 mm hub width in a 126 mm frame?

tonupbandit

Beauty! Love the Brooks saddle--pretty much the only saddles I ride now.


I've heard a lot of people talk about these frames handling super nicely, so I'm excited to get this thing out and see for myself.

tonupbandit

Well, about a decade ago when I managed shops I'd just spread the rear triangle a bit by hand when I was putting the wheel in. It's only 2mm per side, which is not a whole heck of a lot. Back then we only cold set frames if it were a substantial jump, like trying to go from 126 to 135, or 120 to 130. So, my plan is to just stick the wheel in, see how she tracks, and if it seems funky, explore actually cold setting it. Thanks for asking--always good to think through all the steps before you come upon them! What are your thoughts here?

unworthy1

That white one is an early frame/fork and might be a San Cristobal model, the fork crown is just like mine (which IS a SC) and yes these predated the "Cincinnati Reds C" that the current decal set has. I'd bet this was built by Pelizzoli himself (or his helpers) where as the OP's frame was probably built in the later contract-shop that bought out the Ciocc name. The OP's is often referred to as a "Designer '84" due to the decal on the TT, but clearly TSD had different catalog model names depending on whether sold as complete bikes or as framesets. The "anthracite gray" color was VERY popular for this frame/model, probably more sold in that color than all others combined. Possible that the paint was actually applied by TSD in the USA, as their practice for some of the Italian bikes they sold was to import them as primered-only and paint locally. That practice is said to have 2 benefits: TSD paid a lower import duty on primered frames which were classified as "unfinished parts" and the USA paint was often better (if DuPont Imron) and neater.
In any case, I bet you'll be very pleased with this Ciocc when you build and ride it.

Choke 

I have a '92 Ciöcc which is 126. I could spread it enough to fit a 130 hub but the wheel would never hold tight no matter how hard I cranked the QR down, I suppose because the dropouts weren't parallel. I finally gave up and just stuck with a 126 hub. But it's worth trying, as yours may work fine.


Interesting, as the supposed 1985 one I owned had that same crown yet with the newer style C....but the engraving on the seatstay cap didn't have it.

thinktubes 

Here's the fork engraving and seatstay cap from my Designer '84. The frame has a 1985 Registration sticker, so it's at least mid-80's. Frame tubing is SLX.

easyupbug 

I cold set mine then using long bolts locked in with nuts/washers was able to get the dropouts aligned much like the Park tool FFG-2. Like I said in your earlier post mine corners like on rails.[h=3][/h]

tonupbandit

Thanks, unworthy1. I read quite a few of your posts about Ciocc's when researching this frame before and right after paying for it and found the info quite helpful in making a decision to buy it. I'd love to know the year, and whether it's full SL, but I think I'm also too hyper-focused on details that won't matter a whole lot once I'm out on it!

tonupbandit

Crossing my fingers on this one; don't necessarily want to cold set it, or have it done, but I'll do so if that's the only option. Nice fork--that red is sharp!

Kactus

I would just try fitting a 130mm rear hub and see how easy it goes in/comes out. If it's too difficult just buy a length of all-thread, some fender washers and nut and slowly set it yourself.

tonupbandit

Slid a 130 wheel in there last night, really wasn't too difficult. No idea how it'll hold once some torque is put on it, but wheel see...oh man is that a bad pun!