poke em

You are lucky he amended the feedback, most will not do that. I sell retail items on ebay and most of my customers are great. But a small percentage of them are complete bastards. If they want their money back they will get it. Ebay and paypal will make sure of that. I've found that it always works best to tell them to return the item if they are not happy, but even then you can still have that one guy who makes it his mission to ruin your business. This is my experience selling retail items.


On my bike stuff, i have generally had great luck with everything I've sold. There was one guy who tried to extort $20 from me because I had shipped a frame/fork to him with the fork removed so it would fit in a smaller box. For some reason he thought that made me greedy. He eventually left me a negative feedback because I refused to refund any money to him.

RobbieTunes

Yes, you do great things with 7800.

RobbieTunes

I've only pursued one eBay scammer outside the normal protocol, and it was only $50, but it was an sold/not delivered Ironman in Vegas. There are many people working security in that town who once snooped and pooped for a Force Recon paycheck. I offered it, and the info, to Mad Dog and Bull Dog, two appropriately nicknamed Georgians who couldn't pronounce Reconnaissance but were very good at it in their younger days. Bull Dog advised they got it back and spent it on drinking. This I don't doubt. We called them Beavis and Butthead, but never, ever to their face. They've probably mellowed since. I sure hope so.

We'll see how this comes out. I've often had regrets for simply buying something on eBay (like the wrong BB from Ukraine), but I've never blamed it on the seller. I'll either get my parts back and re-list them, or get some junk back they intended to replace with my parts. No harm, lesson learned, and no more free shipping, no more cheap items.

dailycommute

I much prefer the local large swap vs ebay as both take approx 15% of gross sale yet both consistently net more $ than CL.

The huge difference on swap vs ebay is the swap is like a traditional sale, where buyer beware and once you bought it, you bought it. No complaints, no returns, no hassles and I never even meet the buyers. But of course the swap only occurs once a year so I end up with lots of basement inventory (well at least this year!) unless going to ebay. To sell whole bike on ebay I now only use BIN, instant payment and offer free shipping. Still not my preferred medium but the exposure cannot be denied. Overall I am finding vintage bike market to be pretty soft this year for sellers.

RobbieTunes

The returned chain rings arrived, so I sent the refund, $40.01
I assume ebay will charge me for the label. Maybe I'll just use them somewhere.
7800 rings are sweet, they just don't match anything.

RoadGuy

There are some many potential pitfalls for Sellers that eBay is not worth dealing with anymore. At one time I was close to a "PowerSeller" and Ebay was pressuring me to join the program and pay the monthly subscription fee. I was listing and selling between 100-200 items a week from my computer business. When eBay decided to eliminate the Seller's ability to post Negative Feedback, and started the payment delay program (payments collects for certain categories of items were to be held for between 3-6 months after the item/s were delivered), I knew it was time to get out.

I was selling $1.5K-$2K (as high as $5K) a week on eBay (plus shipping charges). I was paying $500-$1000 a week in shipping charges. I tried to calculate out how many tens of thousands of dollars of mine that PayPal would be holding (without paying Interest) for months at a time, and how much it would cost me to borrow enough money to finance my operation while PayPal was holding my money, and the amounts were staggering. So, I pulled the plug.

In case you don't know it, eBay's Customer Satisfaction Guarantee is a eBay SCAM/Marketing Ploy paid for by Sellers. As-Is, and No-Return mean absolutely nothing. The Buyer simply requests eBay's Satisfaction Guarantee, and eBay directly the Buyer to return the item/s to the Seller, then dings the Seller for the item/s the shipping, and a Service Charge (it was $40-$50 last year) to boot! eBay risks nothing, and pays nothing out of their own pocket.

Last year a Scammer in TX bought a pair of new Shimano Ultegra 600 brake levers from me. They were in the original factory (two colors) plastic bags. Two weeks after he received them he claimed that they were used, defective, and he wanted a partial refund, and threatened to return them for a refund in full, if I did not send him money. I looked at the photos that he presented as proof and I could see that the brake levers he claimed he got from me, were not actually the same ones. I looked up his history, and it showed that he was buying beat up Ultegra levers of the same model dirt cheap. I suspect that what he did was substitute my new levers for a set of used, beat up levers that he bought from someone else. When he returned the brake levers, sure enough they were not the same ones that I sent, and they did not come back in the same packaging that I sent them in.

I sold them for about $50, including USPS Priority Mail with Insurance and Delivery Confirmation. eBay dinged me $50 for the brake levers, plus return shipping and a $50 service charge.

And the Buyer laughed all the way to the bank.

Over the past twenty plus years, I've had lots of occasions when Sellers did the switch routine on me. In the past, I've shipped brand new computer printers and new toner cartridges (I used to open the boxes to make sure that a new, fresh factory cartridge is inside). and gotten back beat up used printers (serial numbers did not match), and used-up or generic toner cartridges (serial numbers did not match), back from buyers who claimed I was scamming them. Which is why most of the few auctions that I still do are all As-Is, Where-Is, No-Refund, No-Exchange, even when the items are brand-new and in the original box. That keeps many Scammers off my back, and I have a lot more free time now. You would not believe how much time processing, packing, and shipping 20-30 items a day used to take up.

zazenzach

I sell quite a bit on ebay. In general, to cut down on scammers you should stick to buy it now and make offer transactions. The auctions really do act as poo to flies.

Second, never offer partial refunds. often times theyre just fishers that will go away when you offer a full refund once item is returned.

Third, always offer return for refunds. ebay forces you to anyways. by saying no refunds, all that does is attract scammers who know they can file through ebay and get the money and item for free.

forth, it is pretty easy for buyers to scam you. like via the returning a different item than what you sold them trick. but you still need to act smart and try to protect yourself. read up on ebay policy and go to ebay forums if you have questions.

unneccessary. ebay automatically sides with sellers if an item shows delivered (through delivery confirmtion) and the buyer files an item not received case. they only require you to ship with signature on items of $200 or more.

its also a really bad idea to always ship with signature, because if the item arrives when the buyer is gone or at work, the buyer now has to go to the post office to pick it up. that could really piss certain people off and make them want to hit your scores.

if your friend followed ebay's rules, he would have been covered. you always need to ship with delivery confirmation. I'm also assuming that with shipping, the transaction was $200 or more. Ebay clearly states you need to have signature confirm with those sales.

your friend probably didnt do either of those because it is really expensive for international. delivery confirmation with signature for a small white envelope to singapore is probably $60 alone. But if you dont follow the rules, you cant get upset when scammers scam you. This is why i wont ship internationally, because im unwilling to pay the high postage fees i would need to protect myself.

iab

It is a shame a few d-bags ruin it for the rest of us. I generally can't get these parts other than from ebay. If sellers stop selling them, I'm screwed.

I don't sell anymore on ebay. Just at the Madison swap.

zazenzach

Again, this is where understanding ebay's policy becomes important. Most sellers get scammed because they are ignorant of how ebay works.

There is no such thing as an "as-is" or "no refund" sale on ebay. If a buyer files a case with ebay and you refuse to return for refund, all that will happen is ebay/paypal will take the money out of your account and return it to the buyer. and voila, now youre out money and the item.

the bait and switch method is the most difficult to deal with, but you CAN do something. If you file a police report against the buyer and then submit a copy of it to ebay, 9 times out of 10 they'll give you a curtesy refund of the money youre out. If not, then file a case with the better business bureau. ebay values its score with BBB so much so that they will contact you to get the case resolved. Eventually youll get your money back, but obviously this is a real time consumming process that might not be worth it on lower cost items.

RobbieTunes

I may have to try this Madison swap thing...meanwhile, I simply block any buyer that I even suspect of dishonesty. And I hope people who think I'm dishonest will block me as a seller; I don't need the hassle.

randyjawa 

I have not read the full thread, so far, only robbietune's first post. Here is the other side, and it just happened to me...

I bought a set of Legnano high flange hubs for my Legnano...



This is what the add said...

You will be bidding on this nice 1970's 36 hole hub set.
The overall condition is good usable some signs of wear and some spoke marks.
The rear spacing is 120mm with 35 x 1 Italian threading.
Have been run through my ultrasonic cleaner and includes new non Campy bearings.
Spin nice and free .
Thank You for looking.

I wondered about the new non-Campy bearings and Campy skewers. Clearly, the hubs are not Campagnolo issue, in my opinion. But no biggie, I wanted the hubs for the Gran Premio. So, I bought them.

When they arrived, the cones and cups were badly worn and pitted. No way they could be considered useable as sold.

I emailed the seller, informing him/her of the situation and, poof, just like that full refund, shipping costs included, and I was told to keep the hubs. End of story.

I thought to myself, knowing that Ebay usually (another word for always) sides with the buyer, it would be easy for the buyer to complain, get a discount or refund, and, in my case, keep the product. Pretty easy pickins for dishonest people.

I don't plan to buy from the seller again. Just got a strong taste of distrust for him/her.

TheManShow

Jim does thing all the time, his explaination was paypal always sides with buyer. He did the shippment, insured, signature required, but the buyer in Sinapore said he did not sign the receipt. So now on international stuff Jim don't do paypal. It is wire transfer or international cashiers checks.

zazenzach

I've had this exact thing happen to me. 3-4 years ago I sold a Gibson Les Paul Studio to someone in France. Buyer claimed he never received it and that someone else signed for it. He filed an item not received case. I spoke to ebay and they decided in my favor.

So I think there is something more to your friends story than what he is telling you. Either he messed up and didnt send it properly to the right address or with the correct delivery method, or he just refunded the buyer without speaking with ebay about his options, or just by not speaking with ebay period.

Paypal doesnt always side with the buyer. It is in their policy that if the item shows deliverd (and/or with signature if required), then seller is covered from non-delivery claims. Buyer is responsible for ensuring the delivery location is a secure location for packages (ie cant claim it was stolen off porch).

francophile 

I'm pretty much in the boat with @wrk101, but would add: 6. Use the provided buyer restrictions on eBay - all of them - refuse anyone with zero feedback, negative feedback, etc. etc.

Knock on wood, so far no bad sales, but I'm also taking @oddjob2's stance, I get very verbose and typically underrate my items, I also sell most BIN/OBO at 10%-20% less than what I'd get on CL. A one-or-two line description seems to be a can of whoopass waiting to be open, so I'm explaining in gross detail.

To a certain degree, I actually am happy eBay favors the buyer, it legitimately helped me twice recently: Once buying some Rigida re-pop decals which were nothing like my original, and again on an old VAR tool that arrived with damage to a volute spring which I had to pay a friend who owns a fab shop to fix.

In both cases, I feel like I was honest with the seller and came to a reasonable resolution, thankfully. On the stickers I offered to return fully, but seller pushed for partial refund (maybe they knew the product was lackuster?). On the VAR tool, seller was just cool about it, I sent pics of the damage, I searched like hell to find a replacement but everything large enough was out of UK and cost $20+ before shipping.

I'm sure if I sold more volume on there, I'd be in a worse place on my selling experience. I'm just surprised some of these guys selling hundreds of parts per month aren't cooler to return customers. There are a few people in the New England

I'm in process of getting screwed right now on an $8 win for some QR skewers approaching 1 month after auction with two printing labels shipped but nothing actually leaving. It's sellers like this that F it up for everyone.

RobbieTunes

I sold some Campagnolo Vento HP-16's to Taiwan, and was extremely concerned when I started getting "where are my wheels..?" etc, etc. I paid for tracking, but tracking, at the time, ended at Customs. I was certain I was going to get ripped, first by the buyer, then by eBay and PayPal. Luckily, I notified USPS, which intersects with Fed Ex in many foreign countries, or did then. The local Fed Ex guy knew the area, and knew the buyer. He personally went there and found the very satisfied buyer, and told him to "send the feedback," which he did, and PayPal released the funds. Now, I could have sold the same wheels, no international shipping, but I got double what the US market would bear. After a few emails back and forth with the buyer, he explained that in his culture, you negotiate everything, and that's why he gave me such a hard time, even though the wheels were there and he liked them. I learned my lesson that tracking and confirmation don't mean diddly outside the US. A friend of mine sold the remaining inventory of a bike shop, and sure enough, a customer in Brooklyn pulled the "I didn't get my bike" scam, even though UPS showed it delivered and signed for. The UPS investigation found that the buyer did sign for it, but left it on his porch, from where it was promptly stolen. He'd filed a police report AND a dispute with eBay.

In those cases, one can't appreciate enough the efforts on the part of USPS and UPS and FedEx. They went the distance to check on those things, preventing fraud.

My Taiwanese buyer and I have corresponded a few times, and I sold him some NOS Look forks from a bike store closing. I didn't convince him to buy an Ironman (they are ho-hum in Taiwan, where Italian/Campagnolo rule the C&V status heirarchy), but I did convince him to buy a Wraith Hustle, and he loves it.

thinktubes 

i've been on Ebay almost 20 years mostly sell BIN, unless it's something that will get a lot of action.

As of January, There was a "change in service" at USPS, so anything shipped by parcel post now takes a really long time. packages seem to sit for 3-7 days at each leg of the journey.

I no longer waste my time with any items where I can't clear $30.

francophile 

Oh, I would add one thing also, on the buyer front.

I've always been on the fence about whether to bid on a zero-bid item until the last minute as to not tip anyone else off that you know it's there. It bit me in the ass last night. I saw this crankset before crashing out and thought to myself, "Hum, will watch that and snipe with $45 at the last minute" only to find the seller cancelled the item overnight, which I don't think they would've been able to do if there were active bids (IIRC?).

If so, lesson learned: Always bid on a zero-bid auction, even if it's just the minimum...

jetboy 

tough man. I do not use ebay to sell much but just did a big stint of sales last month ~$500 to about 12 buyers and did not have a single problem (one international to canada). But i was selling a consumer sort of product where the buyers just wanted the item and were not looking at a profit margin.

I suspect with bike parts half of your buyers are flippers and are looking to make money. So they try and screw the seller even if they are getting a good deal so they can make that money on the other end. nice right? got to love humans.

lotekmod

I've had pretty good luck on ebay as a buyer and seller over the years, then strangely had three small items for sale ending on the same day a week ago that all went less than well. Two of the items were bought by international buyers despite having all international buyers blocked, listing the shipping options as US only, and stating "Continental US shipping only" in the ad. Both allowed me to cancel the transaction so I only had to relist. The third buyer took over a week to pay with no correspondence. It was only the fact that I was on vacation and didn't want to be bothered that kept me from pursuing a "non payment" report with ebay. In the end all I lost was time, but it's enough to keep my parts bins stocked instead of trying to onload on ebay.

tmh657

Correct from what I have read. If there is a bid you can cancel the auction but you have to sell it to that bidder or not sell it and ebay will still take their cut. Just to keep those sellers from yanking it when they see it is going nowhere...

https://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html

thinktubes 

No, as a seller you can end an item with bids or cancel individual bids

francophile 

With no detriment or penalty? I seem to remember (at least a few years ago) while selling a car on eBay, One someone bids on an auction with BIN, the BIN is removed, and I couldn't cancel. A lot has changed in the ~6 years since, though.

thinktubes 

Managing Bidders

I was referencing auctions in my reply.

francophile 

Daaaaaang. Thanks for that. I wonder if that's tracked? Seems like a shady "out" for a seller not wanting to get lowballed.

repechage

I think the buy it now format is what eBay wants actually.
Amazon alternate.
It is going to be interesting indeed, ebay's quarterly earnings calls with PayPal stripped out will be entertaining.