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  1. #1
    Senior Member armstrong101's Avatar
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    Recommend a Short Stack Height Italian Headset?

    Hi folks

    I've got an Italian frame that previously had a Japanese headset that I assume had a very short stack height (I never saw it, I got the frame/fork unattached).

    I put on a NR headset, but once I had it all together, I noticed the steerer tube was flush with the upper head cup. There were no threads for me to attach the lock ring.

    I think old school 105 and 600 headset stack heights are a lot shorter than same-era Italian headsets. So.. any recommendations?

  2. #2
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Back in the late 80's and through the mid 90's when Campy was horrible a lot of Italian manufacturers spec'd Shimano components. Yes, Shimano. Most of those older Shimano headsets have crazy low stack heights which will prevent you from using anything other than a Shimano.

    A work around is to have a few mm shaved from the fork crown race seat, another few from the top of the of the head tube and another few from the bottom if needed.

    105SC and 600 ultegra have 33.5 +/- stack heights

    Good luck.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 1984 Schwinn Paramount; 1987 Schwinn Paramount; 1975 Tom Ritchey, 198X Vitus

  3. #3
    Senior Member SJX426's Avatar
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    Velobase has Record at 39.1 and Super Record at 42.2
    Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.

  4. #4
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Campagnolo Veloce has 33.0mm stack
    Campagnolo Record (Pista) and Gran Sport are 33.8mm stack.

  5. #5
    Senior Member gaucho777's Avatar
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    Hillary Stone has a couple short stack height headsets currently for sale. A NOS Ritchey Logic headset for 15 pounds (34mm stack height), and a chrome Tange Passage headset (31mm stack height) for 12 pounds.

    Hilary Stone 1in threaded headsets other makes

    Edit: It looks like new Tange Passage headsets are readily available from other suppliers as well, at cheaper prices, for example: Tange Passage New 1" Threaded 27 0 Chrome | eBay

    I've never had a problem ordering from Hillary Stone, but others have reported that he's not always quick with orders. So keep that in mind if you are in a rush.

  6. #6
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    You can use an english threaded headset. It will cut the threads a bit different and then you're stuck with english but that's not a bad long term solution. I actually have high quality NOS japanese Italian threaded headsets in my parts bin as well; it's an xc pro headset.

    Looks like the stack height is 37 mm so that won't work.

    http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...872f1&Enum=111
    Last edited by bikemig; 07-23-15 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chombi's Avatar
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    I solved a very short stack height problem by using a Miche Primato needle bearing headset. I think it's at least 2 mm shorter than a Stronglight A9, IIRC, but you should check the official stack height numbers on the Miche before you buy. You can also just not include any washers between the top lock nut and the tope race cup to get more top lock nut threads to engage a short steerer tube. I've done so many times with my bikes with no problems. Just make sure you adequately tighten the top lock nut against the top race cup to keep things from loosening up.

  8. #8
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    if your Italian-threaded steerer had a Japanese (let's assume ISO threaded) HS installed, then the advice is to NOT switch back to an Italian-threaded HS since the slight deforming of the threads has already taken place and it's in switching back-and-forth that can cause trouble, such as threads stripped or mangled such that neither standard HS tightens well afterward.
    If you can't stomach a Shimano HS there might be Miche (or other European ) choices that come in ISO threading and maybe you can find one with a low stack...but that said Campy DID offer HS with both Italian and "England" threading on some of their models, so if you shop for a Veloce, GS or Pista (bring your fat wallet for that one!) pick one with "England" threads, that's my advice.
    YRMV

  9. #9
    old and fixed... clubman's Avatar
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    Ditto to the older Shimano headsets...STX was a 33mm I believe.

  10. #10
    verktyg verktyg's Avatar
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    VERY SIMPLE INEXPENSIVE SOLUTION!

    Stack height: A + B

    StackHeight.jpg

    First measure you stack height capacity. Here's a VERY simple way to do it:

    StackHeightSteerer2.jpg

    Here's additional info... Read descriptions below the 2 pictures:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...7625424641013/

    True Italian threaded headset were 25.4mm x 24 TPI with 55 angle threads. British and ISO (Japanese headsets too) headsets have 1" x 24 TPI with 60 threads. 25.4mm = 1"

    For years British threaded headsets have been used interchangeably with Italian headset and vice versa.

    My first recommendation would be a new Tange Levin CDS headset. They're made of through hardened alloy steel. The races are precision ground and polished plus they have plastic dust seals.

    The Levin CDS headsets come in polished chrome, satin chrome and black. They're made with 26.4mm and 27mm crown races (27mm are harder to find). They have a 33mm stack height.

    You can find them for $20.00 to $30.00 USD.

    TangeLevinCDS-Specs.gif

    The lower priced (and lower quality) Tange Passage headsets have a 30mm stack height.

    TangePassage-Specs.gif

    As others have mentioned, Shimano made a lot of low stack height headsets but NOS ones are hard to find, same thing with GOOD used ones and they tend to bring a premium price.

    Don't believe the published stack heights for Campy NR headsets. They're 41mm or 42mm or whatever! There were inconsistencies in their quality control ( i have a bag full of them and the all vary but not by 2mm to 3mm.

    Sutherland's list the stack height at 39.1mm (SR at 42.2mm). I don't know how they measure... maybe they left out the lock washer.

    Campy Pista and Grand Sport headsets had 33mm - 34mm stack heights but for what you might pay for a used one of these, you can get a new Tange headset.

    Ritchie makes or made a low stack height model too.

    BTW, someone from Hungary keeps listing "Italian" threaded Stronglight A9 headsets on eBay. No such thing! They were either British or French threaded.

    Hope this helps....


    verktyg

    Chas. Retrogrouch!
    Last edited by verktyg; 07-26-15 at 03:10 AM.
    Things aren't always what the seem... Don't believe everything you think!

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  11. #11
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
    someone from Hungary keeps listing "Italian" threaded Stronglight A9 headsets on eBay. No such thing! They were either British or French threaded.
    But since the threaded parts were aluminum, simply mounting them on an Italian thread steer tube ought to be enough to convert them to Italian thread...

  12. #12
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    "My first recommendation would be a new Tange Levin CDS headset. They're made of through hardened alloy steel. The races are precision ground and polished plus they have plastic dust seals.
    "
    +1, good advice from Chas. I keep forgetting the Tange levin CDS yet I buy/own more of that headset than all others! It's one of the true bargains in bicycle parts.

  13. #13
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    Years ago I bought an 80's Dancelli road frame which was born with a Shimano 600 headset (low stack height). I replaced it with a nice old steel Campy NR headset but kept the ultra low Shimano 600 crown race on the fork to achieve the needed length on the steerer tube. Works like a charm It doesn't provide the same seal as the Campy crown race would but beggars can't be choosers.

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