Sir_Name 

I'm loving this bike. It appears to be very well made, and has some nice (to my eye at least) details. The paint should clean up beautifully and appears to be very durable. There are a few nicks and scratches, no problem. The tires are dry rotted and toast. Wall art at best. The frame looks like it will fit up to a 27mm with a bit of room. Not sure where I'm going yet for tires, other than I'll wait for funds for something nice. I think Dugast Paris Roubaix (cotton) could be a nice fit.

Dating this thing is going to be tricky, if not impossible. I'm hoping to eventually whittle it down to within a 2-year span. Not sure how realistic that is - have done zero research so far and am only working from the very limited understanding I already have of Cannondale's first years. Thanks All for the bits of info here. The rear derailleur dates to '75 (guessing this has to pre-date the frameset by a few years at least). As of now, my SWAG is somewhere between 80-83. Any other guesses?

shelbyfv

How about some more pics, especially the unique/ interesting features? Cool find!

mtnbke

Ooh. We're going to need a complete breakdown of that bikes geometry and measurements. The one I'm most interested in is the thickness of the rear dropouts. I'll measure the dropouts on all my ST bikes. I think your prototype is a bit thinner in the dropouts. What do you think? I also think it would be awesome if this had a different seat tube diameter than 27.2, that would only make it more special in my mind.

As for what year? Not to be snarky, but if that's a prototype Cannondale that's likely an '81 or '82, right? Maybe my logic is flawed but wouldn't a prototype be before the production run? Sure looks kind of like the ST series to me. That's my guess, and what I thought when I saw the listing. The components could be red herrings and this could have been a rework or just a custom frame built by an employee. Who knows. Still I like thinking about it as what I suspect it is, truly a prototype of the original Cannondale bicycles.

Which is what made it interesting to me, and why I posted it.

trailmix

Wheelbase is way too short for it to be an ST. Also the lack of rack and fender mounts rule out a touring model as well. Paint looks similar to my wife's 86 SR500, I think it was called "rose". It could possibly be a prototype for their first racing model which first appeared in 84 or it could have been built at one of the after hours welding workshops at the factory.

thumpism 

My dad worked for Reynolds Aluminum in Product Development way back when I was working in a bike shop in town. His department rented long term the frame building jig the shop's owner had bought at an auction and which was on display on the shop wall. The use was ostensibly to develop product for "an American bike manufacturer" but I could never find out more than that from him. Feeds nicely into this thread, doncha think?

miamijim

RD, crankset, shift levers and hubs all should have date codes. Lack of date code on the crank set would make it pre '73, I think the same for the RD.

Sir_Name 

Certainly - I'll work out the geometry shortly. I have an idea for how to get relatively accurate frame angles based off of the axle locations in the dropouts. Not quite as neat as purpose built jigs I've seen here, but can be done with parts on hand. We'll see how well it works in practice.

A couple of rough measurements of the rear dropout thickness gives a range of 8.33-8.74mm. I'll tighten those numbers up when measuring geometry. What do yours measure?

Seatpost is 27.4 - pretty cool.

I agree that year is most likely 81/82 and that the components won't be much help in dating the frame. The rear der. is Pat. '75 and I'm guessing pre-dates the frame by quite a bit (6-7yrs). I haven't checked any other date codes yet, but will include those in the future. I'm guessing that someone built this up with parts on-hand or a specific set of their choice parts from across a range of years. The Suntour components are very nice and seem to work very well. The early Super Record rear der. is icing on the cake, same with the BB. The build seems to be very purpose-driven with a focus on road racing (though the Maillard freewheel has a wider range than I'd expect for crit racing, but is great gearing for CT, that may not be original equipment).

I'm guessing most, if not all parts are original. Except for the seat which I've replaced with a black suede Unicanitor. I don't see evidence of DT shifters having ever been mounted (though there is a circular boss on the top tube which I assume is meant to anchor a DT band clamp for shift levers). The cable guides at the HT/DT point to bar end shifters being original equipment. I see no evidence in the paint on the ST around the FD clamp that another of different design had ever been mounted, so that (1st gen. Cyclone) is quite possibly original as well.

Wheelset is 28 hole f/r, unmarked (and currently unknown) gold anodized tubular rims laced with 2mm straight gauge spokes to record hubs - low flange front, high flange rear (also pretty neat).

I'm guessing any production bikes, even from the first year, would have a serial number and other markings, agreed? Again, I've only had about a half-hour to spend with the bike at this point, but see no evidence so far of serial number, decals (i.e. glue from peeled-off decals), etc. It appears the bike was built, painted, then (hardly) ridden. No evidence of ever having decals (though I suppose someone could have just done a good job of removing them, instinct says this is not the case). The previous owner made it clear that he purchased the bike and it sat in storage only being ridden around the block a couple times. No work was done to the bike since the auction in the 80s/90s where it was purchased by the PO. Wish I knew the circumstances leading up to it being placed for sale at auction...estate? Warehouse closing? Doubt I'll ever know.

Soon I'll strip the components off the bike, clean everything, wax/polish the frame, re-grease/re-build the components, then get it back together with new brake housings and all new cable inners. I'll replace the black cork tape with some NOS black cloth I have around (Cicolinea I think). Once rebuilt, I'll start riding it on the wheelset from another bike until I buy some nice sew-ups for the wheelset. Brake pads will get a refresh if not replaced. Not sure if the holders are original, they aren't the campy holders which I would expect as the calipers are campy. Mathauser pads/holders would be pretty neat on this bike if I can prove to myself that what's on there now is not original to the build (though they may very well be, we'll see).

Sir_Name 

Thanks for the info. Geometry actually seems fairly close to my Colnago by eye. ST and TT CTC lengths are almost identical at least. ST and HT angle seem close. I think the toe clips are mediums and there is a tiny bit of tow overlap with them (doesn't bother me), so yes, tight racing geometry from what I can tell w/o yet measuring. Color does look close.

Sir_Name 

Ha - very cool. Thanks. What was the location and timeframe?

Sir_Name 

Thanks. RD is Pat. 75 - likely older than the frame by the better part of a decade. I'll include all the above info and anything else interesting either here or in another thread as time allows. Hopefully soon. I do have a week that's not completely booked toward the end of the month... Busy summer.

Sir_Name 

I will certainly add many more pics as time allows. The cable guides at the BB are very interesting, I've yet to see anything quite like it.

Ronno6

Very interesting bike indeed........

The downtube is spec'd at 44.4mm, or roughly 1 3/4".
Cannondale began using 1 3/4" in '86, up from the original 1 1/2" for '83 to '85.
Yours looks to me to be the smaller size, but measurement will tell the tale.

Interesting locations for derailleur cable guides and housing stops.

I was told by a Cannondale rep back in '86 that the correct (official) way to measure their
frame is center of crank, up seat tube to a point 1cm above the top of the top tube.
This was due to the top headset race and the seatpost clamp being above the TT, hence
effectively making the frame 1cm larger than previous conventions.

Anxiously awaiting future info.

embankmentlb

After reading all the posts , It seem you have a unique and interesting bike. Could it be a different make all together than Cannonade?

trailmix

Pictures of the cable guides would definitely be interesting to see.

thumpism 

Richmond VA about '80 or '81.

mtnbke

Was working on bikes all day in the garage and had the calipers out for other things and forgot to measure the dropout thickness on my STs.

That 27.4 seat post might confirm you have something very special. The post actually is stamped 27.4 or that's your measurement with the calipers?

If you're going to run those pedals you need the original brown leather "Cannondale" branded straps off the ST800 and ST1000 (?) bikes. I can PM you pics of what those look like. They'd look great on this. I don't use my pedals, because I use Bebops, but someday I'll get around to getting some custom size 51 leather touring shoes and use my Suntour Superbe Pro pedals, and that will be permission to buy the Mavic pedals I've always wanted.

I'm very interested in your bike. Can you call the auction house it was sold through? I'd actually see if I could get a hold of Joe Montgomery (maybe through Zinn and his tech column at Velonews) to find out more about this bike.

Sir_Name 

Tubing diameters as measured. I note that Sutherland's 4th dates to '85.
Calipers are zeroed w/ masking tape across the flats, measurements are ~averaged across a few locations on each tube, so I'll call these measurements 'pretty close'. Paint is fairly thick. My numbers are in brackets, Sutherland's to the left.

Top Tube 34.9mm [38.5 mm / ~1.5 in]
Downtube 44.4mm ('84 ST 38.1mm) [38.55 mm / ~1.5 in]
Seat Tube 31.7mm [31.88 mm]
Head Tube 34.9mm [36.2 mm]
Steering "column" 25.4mm [Yet to pull fork, interested to see if any markings exist. 1" threaded fork]
Chain Stay 25.4mm [22.0 mm - circular cross-section]
Seat Stay 19x25.4 [19.4 mm - circular cross-section]

Crude measurements of chainstay length and wheelbase roughly match those given in the '84 catalog for the largest published size in the SR series (SR appears first in '84): 40 cm, 100.3 cm, respectively. The largest size listed in the '84 catalog is 63 cm and does not match this bike no matter how you measure (CTT = 65 cm, CTC = 59 cm, CTC+1 cm = 60 cm), not sure what to make of that. Top tube measures 57.5 cm CTC.
https://vintagecannondale.com/year/1984/1984.pdf

The ’84 catalog does show a single eyelet on rear dropouts (absent here). Starting in the ’85 catalog, chainstays are dimpled, the stays on this bike are not.

Vintage Cannondale - Cannondale Catalogs

Most catalog photos show DT shift lever bosses, which are absent on this bike, though there is a single circular boss on top of the DT at what would be the shift lever location. This circular boss measures 6.2 mm dia x 2.4 mm height. I assume it is intended to anchor a band clamp for shift levers…



The bike has cable guides/stops at the DT/HT junction to accept bar end shift lever cables. This does not match any catalog pics I’ve come across yet.



The TT cable guides also differ from those in the early C’dale catalogs.


Looks like someone may have tried to address the TT cable guides in the past. I have an idea or two about how to re-repair, but it involves epoxy and is permanent, which would be nice to avoid (likely a challenge for a feasible solution) - any recommendations here?

The fork crown does not match that given in the earliest catalogs (which shows a window a la Cinelli OR crown), but does appear to match the fork crown of the Tange fork first appearing in the ’86 catalog (for all SR models but the SR1000, which still has the window in ’86).

More questions than answers. My gut still says some sort of Cannondale, prototype or some other one-off, but I haven't closed out other options yet. So far I'm focusing on the racing/SR models as this bike seems to have racing/crit geometry. Angles appear close to my '83 Colnago to my eye, though that's tough to calibrate... I have toe overlap with med toe clips on this C'dale, this does not happen on the Colnago (or others). Short wheelbase.

I wasn't expecting a match to any one model/year, and that's what I got. I'll add here as I make progress. Any suggestions are of course more than welcome.

SWAGs at this time are either: prototype, or built after-hours by a worker for their stash, or built for the team, or not a Cannondale at all, or.......?

A few quick photos:

DO/stay treatment. This also appears to differ from the catalogs.


BB cable guides.


BB cable guides and chainstay bridge.


27.4 seatpost



I've yet to take a close look at components - rear der. dates to '75 and crankarms to '80. I'll add other dates as I start to clean the components. The build doesn't match any catalog (not that the frameset does either), and given the range of parts and dates it appears that someone built this up with either parts on hand or with their dream build at the time.

I'll add more detail as I go, but here are some highlights:

3ttt record AR stem w/ black bolts/nut
3ttt Superleggero bars
Suntour 3090 shift levers (sans 'plastic grip')
SR headset
SR seatpost
SL pedals
Record crankarms w/ Sugino super mighty rings (maybe replacement) and black chainring bolts, plus gold anodized Al/alloy crankarm bolts (I think, yet to pull them)
Press fit BB (yet to inspect closely)
1st gen. Suntour cyclone FD
Early SR RD
Record hubs (high flange rear, low flange front, 28 hole f/r)
Unknown gold anodized tubular rims w/ eyelets (Fiamme Gi 8??)
Maillard 6sp freewheel (replacement? - would expect a tighter range for racing, though this is suited to CT's terrain)
Record calipers
SR brake levers w/ Modolo hoods (replacement?)
Dia Compe brake blocks (replacements?)
Unicanitor saddle (my addition, had gel saddle at time of purchase)
Silca pump
Cobra bottle cage (one set of bosses on DT)

I hope to start the disassembling, cleaning, reassembling process this weekend as time permits, though I haven't been riding much and that urge may win out.

ncrnelson

That's an interesting bike for sure. I've got an original '83 ST500 and it's a lot different than your bike, mostly in the ways you've already mentioned, cable guides, cable stops, dropouts, seat tube diameter, chainstay bridge, etc. The welds on your bike also look smoother, the welds look a bit chunky on mine and another '83 I saw photos of.

Not sure what to make of all that.

Sir_Name 

Thanks. DT (and TT) are 1.5".

I should have re-read your post about sizing prior to posting my measurements above - BB center to 1cm above TOP of top tube (rather than above the center of the top tube as above) should measure out to a 61cm - still not a stock size from the early years (TT length measured CTC also doesn't match the catalogs...57.5cm / 22.64"). I'll keep digging, but it seems the frame does not match production sizing.

Sir_Name 

Thanks. I'm wondering the same thing.

Sir_Name 

Seatpost is stamped 27.4. Pics of the toe straps would be great. Add them here or in PM. Either way, thanks. This does have Binda laminated/reinforced straps, so those will likely stay as I suspect they're original to the build (although they are not routed through the outboard cage plate of the pedal...?) Not to say I would grab a set of cannondale straps just to have.

I intend to call the auction house assuming they are still in business - hopefully their records are good and they're willing to take the time to search for "a prototype cannondale listing from some time in the late 80s or early 90s". Long shot, but worth it. Information on who placed this for auction could be valuable (assuming they hand over the info if they can even find it). I'll try to get in touch with Joe Montgomery, and will also use the contact page through the vintage cannondale site.

Sir_Name 

Yes - the welds do seem smoother than I've found on other models so far, the transitions of the fillet are smoother even than on my '07 CAAD 9. The '86 catalog mentions "Alumina Classic Framesets" which are "a series of specialty hand-finished framesets that have the elegant appearance of a custom built bicycle", so that type of finishing work (perhaps done by a worker for a bike the built for themself) could be an explanation. I'll dig for pics of one of these framesets.

I wonder if Cannondale offered special orders around this time. That could account for some of the differences. I would expect tubing diameters to match production frames, though...

---

Another difference: catalogs mention braze-on FD mounts for the racing series, this bike uses a clamp-on FD.

embankmentlb

It also looks like the bottom bracket may be press fit? Definitely not something i have ever seen on a Cannonade.
Could it be a prototype Klein or early Klein? That would be something!

Sir_Name 

That thought crossed my mind... More digging. All C'dale catalogs I've been through so far mention English thread Campy (or other) BBs. Might wait to sort out C'dale vs Klein before contacting Joe Montgomery...

embankmentlb

Klein began building bikes in the mid 70s but i don't think formal factory production began until around 1980. The early bikes may not have serial numbers. The fork would also be a clue of sorts.
I wonder who to contact? There is a Klein painter in the UK that has some knowledge.

I see more Klein likeness than Dale.

Very Interesting bike! Please keep us informed!