Blue Belly

Following on an idea from an earlier thread, I start wondering why no one is really in the business of making a high quality freewheel? Sure, there are a few companies out there making them but, not really a product to write home about. Minimal gearing choices & the regular old heavy steel construction. With current technology someone could make a really nice modern freewheel assembly. Is it just the fact that the C&V customer is more interested in budget than the modern "Roadie"?

fender1

Not enough demand. One provider seems to be sufficient.

Classica Freewheels 5/6/7-Speed ? Interloc Racing Design / IRD

Blue Belly

cheap, steel, minimal gearing choices.

fender1

Maybe but most folks here complain they are too expensive. Freewheels are like floppy disks, they work fine but are not superior to cassettes (modern technology)in any way. Maybe you should start making titanium freewheels and see how they sell?

dddd

I believe it is perhaps most often the case that people who end up being C&V types got their start by persistently trying to "beat the system" in acquiring or simply maintaining a high-perfoming bike without the cash outlay needed for a newer bike.
I think it might have been the "STI shifter price increase" that got me started with C&V, in fact, though I already had much experience in maintaining pathetically-older motocross bikes on a quite-tight budget as a teenager and had bought both of my 1980's (road and touring) bikes at 50% off "Winter" prices. Both of those 1980's bikes ended up with indexed (Command and bar-end, respectively) shifters (instead of STI) going into the early 90's, and a leftover hybrid bike was purchased by me the day after Christmas, 1991.

So yes, I would say that we have a high percentage of "thrifty cheapskates" among us, even many of us who are perhaps relatively well off financially and who may be outright generous in other regards (recalling here what an older Los Angeles news-stand vendor friend told me back in 1994, that his customers with the nicest cars were the one's who seemed never to leave any tip, and whom he clearly despised).

brianinc-ville

Gimme a quarter and I'll tell you.

Blue Belly

Thats the whole point, right there!
Look,
a Dura ACE 11spd cassette will cost you $150 +/- w/shipping
Campy Record $300.
People shell this out like it's just a part of the game.
However, IRD(an expensive by comparison freewheel)sells at around $60 & there aren't really many other options.
This leads me to believe that there is no money in a market for quality C&V freewheels?

Blue Belly

Most people who rely on tips seem to complain about that. Those with less understand what it's like to make that living cause', they've been there.

The Golden Boy 

C&V stuff is "obsolete." Manufacturers have moved on. When department store BSOs make the switch to freehubs- the freewheel will be obsoleted by Shimano, and there just won't be any money in it for anyone.

crank_addict

PLENTY new available today. As for starting up and production of freewheels, it would take some large resources and tooling. Certainly wouldn't pay off and not enough demand to justify. The numbers are lopsided... can still buy brand new Shimano discounted for the price of lunch. I picked up a brand new in the box Shimano wide range for $3. Of course quite the deal but its still found for $20.

And why be so devoted to freewheels if upgrading? These days, its all about cassette. Could even skip the idea of a buying a new cassette hub- price of new complete wheelsets are excellent.

Taiwan and other Asian sources can pump this stuff out and the distributors set the attractive prices. Calling C&Ver's cheap doesn't quite stack up.

Blue Belly

but, at the same time this who E'roica thing is gaining traction. Vintage stuff is going through the roof. At what point will this stuff become desirable....or will it?

ThermionicScott 

It's sort of like with "reissue" products of other types -- there has to be enough demand above and beyond the supply of old stock in order to justify making something. IRD makes the wide-range ones for $60, and there seems to be enough NOS or lightly-used stuff out there to satisfy most everyone else. There are semi-regular threads here in C&V about people's collections of unused "corncob" freewheels.

What are you looking for that can't be found from IRD or old stock?

John E

I do not consider myself cheap, but -- blame my Scots DNA -- I do look for value, defined as quality per unit price, in almost everything I purchase, including bicycle parts. I do acknowledge that the freehub/cassette system is superior to freewheels, and I did convert the mountain bike, which also enabled me to go from 7 to 8 cogs in back. I also go modern with my lighting, again because the new stuff, with LEDs and NiMH batteries, is so vastly superior to the old. After converting all of my bikes to KoolStops, there is no way I would go back to any brand of old school brake pads.

Having said that, I do need replacement sources for various consumables, including rims, chainrings, chains, and freewheel bodies and cogs. My biggest frustration with modern freewheels is the absence of 26T cogs -- three of my five bikes have either 13-26 or 14-26 6-speed freewheels. Most of the derailleurs won't take a 28, and I want something larger than a 24 when I have 42 teeth up front.

LesterOfPuppets

Will that ever happen? I mean, it's been about 20 years since Freehubs hit lowend non-BSO groups.

Blue Belly

I think mostly because of 126mm spacing & the desire for authenticity...maybe?

dddd

It has somewhat surprised me that Shimano has periodically re-designed their freewheels in the years since their 14-32t Hyperglide 6s freewheel was offered.

Fiirst they made a lighter-weight 7s freewheel with an 11t top cog, both in 11-28t and 11-34t Mega versions, and more recently in a 13-28t freewheel with a combined mounting of larger cogs and a visibly slimmed-down outer body.

Because of the electric bicycle market where bikes often have only one chainring, 9 and 10 speed freewheels are now available as well, though their added width virtually mandates a solid bolted rear axle for strength.
But electric bicycles are now getting fancy and are commonly shipping with cassette hubs of late.

Blue Belly

the IRD website doesn't offer too many gearing choices. Some are even obsolete. What I'm really looking for is something of quality, more than anything. Something with weight in mind, a good selection of gearing, would also be really nice.
I think the issue with used parts is that you hope you are getting something barely used & well cared for. Sometimes it's nice to buy a new product that you can install & not worry about.

mstateglfr 

Because anyone who went into this business would soon be out of business due to...not enough business.

LesterOfPuppets

It's the way things work. Stuff gets phased out and it's tough to find the market for highend replacement parts.

You don't even have to go freewheel to see it. You haven't really been able to get high quality 8-speed cassettes outside of eBay/CL/swapmeets for about 12-13 years, as far as I can tell. I often kick myself for not buying up all available 8-speed XT cassettes when they got blown out at one of the mail order joints for $30 a pop around the turn of the century.

Blue Belly

Kinda my line of thought, right now. But, the future seems to hold some promise with the rise of vintage cycling?

dddd

There are 9 and 10 speed freewheels now that sell for about $100, no doubt their tolerances needed enhancing to meet indexing requirements with the tighter spacing.

I don't know of their quality, but they look nicely finished and with "aired-out" cogs, and are "rated" for use on electric-assist bicycles.

So perhaps something C&V-worthy comes out of this(?).
I admit to having examined pictures of these, to see if perhaps one could be narrowed by one cog's width.

Blue Belly

as the old saying goes, Hindsight is 20/20. I curse often about these types of things.... Someone told me about 5 years ago that vintage copy parts would never be worth the investment. I've seen the Record cranks I ride go through roof. I was picking them up for $15-$30 in good condition. Now they sell at over $100, easy. I wish my wages did that!

crank_addict

Millions have been made or still in production. Not that difficult to source so I wouldn't concern about the future. Then there's the C&V'r who wants the old bike but also wants the new ratio's / wider gear inch. Look at the many on this forum and cold set spreading frames.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing a company bold enough to produce replacement 4 speed for early bikes. I could set aside preserving the original.

Ratzinger

Myself, I don't think I'd ever buy a new freewheel. If I have an old pair of wheels without a freewheel, I'd just get a used freewheel for them. If I wanted to spend some money, I'd just get new wheels with a cassette.

dddd

There is no better deal than SRAM's 8s cassettes imo.

They are tres lighter than any of Shimano's 8s road cassettes, cost less and have a nicer chromed finish.

Sure, they seem to have somewhat copied the lightweight-style cogs that Shimano used widely in many of their 9s cassettes, but Shimano never went back to lighten any of their otherwise-excellent boat-anchor 8s road cassettes.

SRAM also invented the particular 12-32t set of ratios that went into their most popular 7s cassette, which were copied outright in Shimano's recently redesigned 7s cassette of that very same size. The Shimano version is hella ugly. Both are very cheap and somewhat make lightweight a priority. Ratios are 12-14-16-18-21-26-32t, and SRAM had previously offered a similar 8s cassette that merely added an 11t to this stack.

So for 8s road it's the Sram 12-26t cassette, and for 7s MTB it's the Sram 12-32t cassette, both are sharp-looking, lightweight, inexpensive winners.

Sunrace comes through with disposably-priced, good-looking 7s freewheels in 13-25t and 13-28t.