iab

It is a different process.

My quote was for SLS, selective laser sintering. Literally melts the stainless together, no binding agent, making a structurally strong part.

I'm not sure what the Shapeways process is but from their website, the final "steel" product is 40% bronze. Melts at 1600F. Considering you anneal stainless at 1900F, it makes it an interesting material, but I doubt it can carry much load.

poprad

Man, another great thread I missed while off doing my day job. I was just looking at your pics of the lugs on Flickr and wondering what the hell you were planning....I can't wait to see the progress of this project.

For some reason this is my mental construct of you at the moment:

St33lWh33ls

Sounds like you want a custom bike with custom lugs and custom geometry, why not just order it from Waterford?

Custom Lugs

Flog00

I think for a project like this it would be cool to use one of those frame builder classes that some builders have.

If I designed a bike from scratch like you are doing, how cool would it be to build it yourself?

I would love to what you are doing, and rent a shop/builder to assemble the bike.

Flog00

I didn't realize Waterford made custom lugs! SS too.
That's probably a more cost effective option.

iab

Thanks for the lead. I'll drive up and see what's what.

I have contacted a few US investment cast places. They complain about wall thickness. I have also contacted Long Shen in Taiwan. It's the joint e-richie uses.

iab

While back in the day, I was pretty darned good with a TIG, I have absolutely no experience brazing. No, I'd rather pay a guy to do it right.

Gary Fountain

Great project iab. Definitely way above my level of expertise and I'm really learning heaps - thanks. I am so impressed with your modern take on a traditional lug design - simply stunning.

I am intrigued with your list of bike/frame requirements and I am sure you will be able to include all of these requirements with your considerable design expertise. What a fantastic project; what a potential stunner.

Sir_Name 

Very interesting - it'll be neat to see how this project progresses along with the technology/practice. 3D printing is a fascinating field that I would love to become more involved in.

Solidworks is a blast. How are you defining the shape of the lugs - a set of curves and contours?

Curious what process will give the best end result balancing material properties, cost and finish.

St33lWh33ls

That's because thin areas trap air and are susceptible to shrinkage, it's a huge PITA.

What about welding up some stainless steel tubing for your lugs and then take that to a waterjet company and have them do your cut out?

iab

Update:

I'd say modeling is 95% there, so I made some renderings. Not the greatest in the world, but it should give you the jist.

A few of the features:
Integrated condorino bars - cork grips, bar end blinkies, headlight, shift buttons, lighting buttons, phone mount
Polished stainless frame with "cromovelato" paint, semi-sloping twin-plate fork crown, integrated rear rack
Integrated lock, rear blinky, battery pack/tool box, carrier, fenders and even custom pedal cages

Gregario01 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario02 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario03 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario04 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario05 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario06 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario07 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario08 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario09 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario10 by iabisdb, on Flickr

gomango

Watching this with interest.

Looks hotter than a pistol.

Lascauxcaveman 

Cool beans. While I couldn't live with the condorino bars for more than a mile two myself, I've always loved that look

And if I was drawing it up, I'd drop the end of the front fender a couple more inches to keep the toes as dry as possible. I don't care for floppy add-on mudflaps, or wet feet.

I bow down to your mad drawing skills!

repechage

I missed this thread earlier, must have been when I was especially busy. Nice work. I like the initial lug design better, I saw the heavy wall thickness and think you could solve the problems another way with the processes you are considering using to create them.
The revised lugs have that tight fillet look that is very conservative investment casting wise but I think you can solve that too.
The modeling effort to date is significant, good job.
My only styling crit is the fastback seat stay sockets, I would look at your Italian stable and after review revisit that.
The geometry appears like nothing is screwy, my guess most builders who work in stainless would entertain the job. Maybe Boston in MN?

elcraft

Just "Wow"!! Love the details, especially the fork crown. I gotta subscribe to this.......

iab

That was my first swag. Not visible in the drawings above, but visible here, I have made a change to take a sex bolt like my XCR.

Gregario11 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario12 by iabisdb, on Flickr

iab

Thanks.

Here's a close up with the brake "removed". Not exactly correct, but pretty close.

Gregario13 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Sir_Name 

Very fine work. And quite the effort. Watching with interest. Will they be stock fenders or rolled to spec? Nice how 'built in' all of the features are, of course.

iab

I'm thinking stock fenders. There is only so much custom work I want to do and I like the tiered deco look of vintage Italian fenders.

repechage

I was thinking of the vintage Italian bikes you have for inspiration.
If you really like the fastback style seat stays. Consider two things.
The interface with the seat stays. With a part interface on an angle, a minor rotation will introduce a dogleg to the stay unless they are sockets and the stay inserts into or over the spigots of the lug.
Consider the amount of metal the binder bolt will be attempting to compress over the seat post, I think you will find most have the stays terminate higher up the seat tube.

With the amount of tube coverage you have with that lug design and your planned creation method, why keep the inside surface net to the tube diameter?

iab

It's just a starting point. I never get something down on a first try. I just get something down, show it, get feedback and integrate the input. So yes, using the additive method, the binding bolt area will be reinforced. No reason not to put in a wall making a "tunnel" for the bolt.

And you are also correct the stays should be higher on the lug. My model has the seat stay, top tube and seat tube center lines intersecting. The seat stay centerline should be about 6-10mm higher.

Sir_Name 

Interesting and educational to watch the volley between the two of you. Thanks.

Reynolds 

Great project! I've always liked those condorino bars. You plan using an Alfine?

iab

Yes. I am planning Alfine Di2 with a Gate's belt. I have always wanted to try electronic shifting and I figure, why not here.

iab

Couple of frame only shots. I did move the seat stays "up" by about 8mm as suggested by repechage.

Gregario17 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario18 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Gregario19 by iabisdb, on Flickr