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Is upgrading a nice old frame "bad?"

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Is upgrading a nice old frame "bad?"

Old 01-10-16, 05:39 PM
  #51  
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None of my bikes are particularly special, but if they are all original and I want to upgrade, I do. I keep the original components just in case I want to sell or change back. No big deal to change out components.

I vote for keeping & upgrading current bike. As you said, you've ridden it for 10 years so you know it fits you and how it rides. No guarantee that if you bought a new bike it would work out.
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Old 01-10-16, 07:08 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
It depends. If you want a "good" bike then upgrading makes perfect sense. Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s. Its forgiving of frame building mistakes and poorly aligned and lugged tubes can be bent and forced into shape on the jig.

The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.

So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.

Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.

Reynolds Technology
You really like to sling out troll posts to get a rise out of people, don't you. This just in...you're in the classic and vintage forum. Most of the Reynolds tubing types you're BSing about were introduced within the last 10 years so are irrelevant to this forum. The only one that could possibly be called "vintage" is 753, which appeared in 1976 but was not widely used until years later and is nothing more than heat-treated, slightly thinner-drawn 531 tubing. Notably, there were lots of problems with early 753 frames and a number of riders (including Merckx) rejected it as too harsh for road racing. The next oldest tubing is 853, introduced in 1995. Your entire diatribe regarding 531 tubing is nonsensical and largely fact-free.
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Old 01-10-16, 07:22 PM
  #53  
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When I was into cars, I used to get perturbed at people who'd swap Chevy engines into Fords. Then I realized that it didn't matter, especially when it came to engines that were getting rare. It was great that those engines were being used and seen, instead of a cookie-cutter 350, or other "easy" engines. Part of the reason I stopped with the car thing was the shows themselves, the same model cars over and over, done the same way. It was utterly boring. I loved the oddballs, but those cars were shunned when they'd show up.

It doesn't really matter, do whatever you'd like, keeping every bike as manufactured or period correct is boring. Do what makes you happy, don't be the fart huffers that have a heart attack over the right shade of paint or other utterly meaningless minutiae.
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Old 01-12-16, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheese Head
What are you using for the stem set up in the after picture?
Threadless adapter, threadless stem, spacers to cover up the skinny adapter.
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Old 01-13-16, 12:52 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s.
In a competitive marketplace, things that don't work die. 531 is still available to special order. I would conclude that it worked (and still works) pretty well.
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Old 01-13-16, 01:11 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Von Stively
I ride a 1979 trek 710 full 531 bike..... I just like the bike and working on bikes and I think this thing would be nice upgraded.
My question for you classic minded guys is am I committing some sort of historic crime? ...
Do you mean.... will Jesus cry if you up grade your bike? My guess would be NO. Upgrading and modernizing a quality old bike is perfectly normal and natural. Enjoy the project and be sure to post/share pictures here when done.
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Old 01-13-16, 08:10 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
It depends. If you want a "good" bike then upgrading makes perfect sense. Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s. Its forgiving of frame building mistakes and poorly aligned and lugged tubes can be bent and forced into shape on the jig.

The good stuff is Reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. The problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. Most US frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes. A Reynolds 753 bike will weigh about 1.5 lbs less than a 531 bike and be incomparably stiffer and have more heavenly ride qualities due to the thin wall steel tubing. Its not the flexy boat anchor 531 that can be bent to correct for frame building sloppiness. You can't even cold set a 753 bike. Its that stiff and strong. Which is why most people have never heard of it. The average "master frame builder" is anything but, and most "steel is real" bike builders use steel for reasons of how easy it is to fabricate with steel and how cheap it is, not because the tubing they use builds the best bikes.

So if all you know is 531, then yes upgrade. Find a grown-up frame builder and learn that the false narrative that 531 is the good stuff is just self-validating hooey. If you can't let yourself discover the performance paradigm of a vintage Klein, a vintage or modern Cannondale, or anything modern carbon, then at least graduate to a performance steel bike with the good Reynolds tube sets. Reynolds 531 was a "good" tube set in 1935, not really since.

Think 753 and up, but be prepared to discover your favorite frame builder may not be capable of building with good steel.

Reynolds Technology
So what do you think of electroforged Schwinn's?
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Old 01-13-16, 08:42 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. that tube set has been around since the 1930s. its forgiving of frame building mistakes and poorly aligned and lugged tubes can be bent and forced into shape on the jig.
i have to wonder how much actual, hands-on experience you have building frames with Reynolds 531 tubing. True, it has been around since the 1930s, but it was optimized for brazing and brazing was the primary means of building bike frames well into the 1980s, so there was no compelling reason to change anything.

the good stuff is reynolds 753, 853, 921, 931, and 953. the problem is most frame builders are hacks and can't work with the good stuff. most us frame builders couldn't manage to pass certification to build 753 bikes.
Reynolds 753 is just heat treated 531 tubing, and like 531 is optimized for brazing. The heat treatment means that it is even less tolerant of heat than 531, and must be brazed with silver to retain the properties of the heat treatment. And yes, if you're wondering, I have built frames with Reynolds 753. And 531. And Columbus SL and SP. And Ishiwata 022. And Tange Champion and Prestige. And probably some others I can't recall at the moment.

The newer steels like 853 and the 9nn alloys are optimized for welding rather than brazing as welding has displaced brazing as the primary method of joining bicycle frame tubes. The newer tubes are also available in fashionably larger diameters than traditional tubes. That doesn't make them "better;" it just means they are more appropriate to use than 531 or 753 if you value the oversize tubes and/or intend to weld them.
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Old 01-13-16, 10:31 AM
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Even mid-range stuff from the 70s and 80s goes for a lot of money on here or the bay. So you could get an old 600 setup for the same price as a barely used 105 or Ultegra Brifter setup used. Makes sense in the market to go with the updated stuff, especially since it does provide some riding benefits. Really, whatever gets you in the road and your bike out of the garage.
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Old 01-13-16, 10:38 AM
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This is simply my opinion and is not based on any expertise, but...if the bike is not going to be a collector's item where keeping it original will affect its resale value, and you simply want to ride a nice old bike, then yeah, upgrade that sucker. Whatever it takes to keep it on the road.

My first bike build was a Raleigh Sports, frame only, that turned into quite the frankenbike by the time I was finished. However, most of the changes were upgrades rather than blatant changes...I kept it a 3-speed.
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Old 01-13-16, 01:23 PM
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I just took an old Bianchi Sprint 76 (which I may have paid over the odds for, but what the heck), that probably "wasn't worth fixing" to most people, which had definitely seen better days... and I put it back on the road with a mix of Campy 9-speed Mirage & Veloce, + a set of Campy Khamsin wheels I got for a smokin' price off eBay - and I love it, absolutely brilliant to use for commuting into & out of the city.

Otherwise, it'd just be sitting in the back of a vintage Italian scooter shop in Ireland.

So *please* go and upgrade that old bike, and *enjoy it*.
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Old 01-13-16, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by arex
This is simply my opinion and is not based on any expertise, but...if the bike is not going to be a collector's item where keeping it original will affect its resale value, and you simply want to ride a nice old bike, then yeah, upgrade that sucker. Whatever it takes to keep it on the road.
I guess there's always a point to where "it's your bike, you own it."

I don't understand the person who goes looking for a highly desirable bike, manages to acquire one- and then spray paints it bright orange as "theft deterrent" and THEN decides he doesn't like it.

Actually, I do understand that person. That person lacks intelligence.
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Old 01-13-16, 04:34 PM
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Upgrading nice old frames is about half the activity here in C&V. It's what we love to do. Do it, and share your joy with us.
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Old 01-13-16, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mtnbke
Reynolds 531 never really built a good bike to begin with. That tube set has been around since the 1930s.
Which tube set are you speaking of? A great number of tube sets have been made with 531 metallurgy, using various dimensions and gauges and shapes. If you had a bad experience with one or two 531 frames, that doesn't mean they're all bad. It's like saying all Bridgestone car tires are bad because a few of them failed for various reasons.
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