LuckySquirrel

Hello all,

I have a 1985 Bridgestone 400 that I am using as a project bike to make it a nicer ride and to just learn about working on bikes mechanically. So far I have replaced a broken seat and pedals using items from my LBS and put on a new chain, bar tape, and brake pads. The only component I have purchased thus far is a Shimano FC-RS500 crankset off of eBay. I wanted to run by some ideas and get everyone's input regarding some initial upgrade plans. My ultimate goal would be to completely overhaul the bike one component at a time. I understand this is not necessarily always recommended but I am trying to keep costs lower by buying lightly used components online (plus the bike isn't all original and is not in fantastic condition).

The crankset I purchased is 11 speed. I am planning to upgrade to a budget 700c wheelset (looking at the Aeromax 700c set). However, the wheelset I am currently looking at only accommodates up to 10 speed. I was reading on this blog that there is some overlap between 10 speed and 11 speed components:

Art's Cyclery Blog » Ask a Mechanic: Shimano 11-Speed & 10-Speed Road Compatibility

My current plan is to use the 11 speed crankset with the 700c wheelset mentioned above, and purchase a 11 speed RD and FD, a 11 speed chain, and a 10 speed cassette for the wheels. I am currently looking at the Shimano 105 components for both the RD and FD.

However, I read on this website that I can get an 11 speed cassette and drop a cog to make it fit the wheels:

Another Shimano 10 vs 11 speed Compatibility ?: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

After these upgrades, I would look at changing out the brakes (I believe my current brakes can reach 700c rims). If I end up completely overhauling the bike (frame and all), I would systematically clean each current component as it comes off and then put it back together as a secondary bike. I am really looking at this from a hobby perspective for finding the components over time and getting them at a decent price as well as learning how to mechanically work on most aspects of a bike.

If you have any suggestions or input I would like to hear them as I am very new to this and I have been reading quite a bit of information online that is leaving me slightly confused (sometimes the information is contradictory).

Thank you!

datlas 

If you really want to do this as a project, go ahead. But it's NOT cost effective. Also you will have to bend your rear triangle as it's spaced at 126mm and current 10/11 speed hubs are 130mm.

It might be better to keep this bike as a beater and get a new complete road bike.

ps you might get more info from C&V forum.

LuckySquirrel

Hello datlas,

Thanks for the reply! Would getting the components for cheap on eBay still make it very expensive to do? Currently I am not in a position to drop a significant amount of money on a road bike, which is why I was hoping to upgrade over time to mitigate the costs while also learning about bikes mechanically.

I know that wheelset is very heavy, but if I can get it for under $100 do you think there are any other better options?

Would it be okay for me to repost this in that forum or is there a way for me to move the post?

Once again thanks for your help!

BillyD

I can move it for you, sir. Give me a sec.


. . .



Ok, done.

datlas 

If you get cheap from eBay it may work out ok. Be careful about sizing and compatibility. You may do better economically buying a 5 year old used bike from Craigslist.

datlas 

The mods here are SO kind.

LuckySquirrel

Thank you very much .

LuckySquirrel

Definitely learning a lot about sizing/compatibility today. Do you have any recommendations for components to look out for on eBay?

I was thinking Shimano 105 for RD and FD and maybe the Aeromax wheelset to use just for the next couple years (I am in college and just bike to/from campus but want to start doing some weekend biking).

datlas 

The cost is going to be highest for shifters if you want integrated brake lever/shifters ("brifters"), you are looking at a few hundred bucks for FD/RD/shifters. If you stick with downtube shifters that will save you a lot. I am not an expert in upgrades so I will leave it to the C&V crowd.

nesteel 

Cold setting the rear triangle is not necessarily required. Most steel frames can easily accept a 130mm rear wheel with just a bit of effort. If you shop around and are okay with buying used parts, and know what to look for, it's not all that expensive to go 9 or 10 speed. 11 speed not so much. Or, as mentioned before, find an organ donor with all the pieces you need.

LuckySquirrel

Makes sense, thanks! I am planning to keep the downtube shifters, but was a little worried about having a 10 speed with friction shifting. I was reading online that it can be done with some finesse and learning so I am planning to try it out, and then switch to indexed downtube shifting if that's possible as well (I believe I read about this for 10 speed but not sure which product this would be exactly and what else I would need to do).

LuckySquirrel

What components would you recommend looking for? Do you think the Aeromax wheels would be a decent set to start out with? It seems like they have them on eBay quite often and I was hoping to score one for ~$90 after shipping.

Can I do the 11 speed crankset, FD, RD, and chain, but use a 10 speed cassette like the first article suggests? Or would I need to use a 11 speed cassette and remove a cog like the second article suggests?

Thanks everyone for the input!

LuckySquirrel

Just got the wheelset from eBay for $72.99 after shipping. I figure for that price I hopefully shouldn't be too behind.

nesteel 

Few and far between on the 'Bay. Best to look locally. I've found some excellent deals that way.

LuckySquirrel

Definitely checking Craigslist for any items I can use! Hoping to find a few good things .

nesteel 

Start networking with the local bike community also. Got a co-op nearby?

degan

+1 on quelling you're desire to upgrade you're current bike.

I'd install the parts you already have purchased then wait and watch craigslist for a more modern bike at a cheap price. I know (because I went through this exact same phase with my first road bike) that it might seem like a good idea, but with the amount of money you're going to have to spend to make the 400 into what you want you could probably get a complete bike if you're vigilant. When I tried to upgrade my old steel 10 speed with modern parts I quickly realized it was a fools errand.

LuckySquirrel

I do. I went to it about a year back to work on the truing the wheels and rebuilding the hubs!

LuckySquirrel

How feasible is it to purchase parts over time to put together an entire new build? My original plan was to upgrade the current bike as much as possible, then get a new fork and frame and transfer all the components to the new bike. At that time I would then either part out or put back together the original bike to keep as a secondary.

USAZorro

I don't think the crankset matters especially much. Neither does the FD. Where you need to have things match up is the shifter, rear derailleur and the rear cassette. All need to be the same number. The pull ratio on a 10 speed RD and an 11 might be close enough, but I wouldn't want to risk wasting the money to find out. What do you have already?

LuckySquirrel

Currently I only have this ($45 with shipping):

FC-RS500-L

I also have the BB that came with the Scott CR1, which I believe is the Shimano SM-BB7141 (seller said it fits 68/73mm shell width) based on this link:

https://www.rei.com/product/879462/sc...-105-bike-2015

I am thinking of grabbing this:

New Shimano 105 Front and Rear Derailleur Set 11 Speed Short RD 5801 FD 5800 | eBay

And then using that with an 11 speed chain on a 10 speed cassette based on this recommendation:

Art's Cyclery Blog » Ask a Mechanic: Shimano 11-Speed & 10-Speed Road Compatibility

I need the 10 speed cassette since I purchased these ($72.99 with shipping):

https://www.amazon.com/Aeromax-Alloy-...s=aeromax+700c

Do you think that would work well together or could you recommend something else? I am planning to use either downtube friction shifting (what my bike is currently setup as), or with something like this:

Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 10sp Down Tube Shifters | Chain Reaction Cycles

I am very open to suggestions!

Current plan would be to use those items on the current bike and upgrade the brakes (current ones given in the link below):

Bridgestone Bicycle Catalogue 1985 Bridgestone 400

Unless the brakes above are fine (they should have enough reach for 700c). I also want to add fenders and a rack possibly to make it easier to carry my bags, but haven't researched good options for those with a bike that doesn't have the mounts.

*Edited to include BB.

degan

Its possible, but probably hard to do one piece at a time. An older chain and RD isn't going to work well with a modern cassette. Brifters aren't going to mesh well with an older RD. You sort of have to install the entire drivetrain at once for it to function at it best. Its doable, but even for a seasoned bike tinkerer, not ideal.

EDIT: Just saw your last post. A couple things. First: Why not just get a 10 speed chain? Second: That crankset is not compatible with your current bottom bracket. You will need a hollowtech bottom bracket to use it. Third: Those shifters will also most likely not just bolt on easily. They are Shimano and designed for braze-on mounts while the current shifters are clamp on made by Suntour. I'm not sure if mounts under the Suntour shifters are compatible or not, though someone here probably does.

LuckySquirrel

Can I use friction shifting or the downtube index shifters that I linked above instead of brifters? I was planning to have the wheels and entire drivetrain ready before doing a swap, and then upgrading by components after (sorry I should have mentioned this!).

USAZorro

I think you mis-interpreted what the ask-a-mechanic article was saying. There won't be issues mixing a 10 speed crankset with an 11 speed cassette. What you can't do is mix the numbers between shift lever, derailleur and cassette. Really the only thing you would need to change in your planning would be to get a Shimano 11 speed road cassette, rather than the 10 speed that you were thinking of.

LuckySquirrel

Ah, makes sense thank you. Is there a way to get a 11 speed cassette and remove a cog to make it fit the wheels I linked above? Or should I instead look at getting a 10 speed RD, FD, and chain? Would the 10 speed chain be okay to use with the 11 speed chainrings on the crankset I purchased?

In the ask-a-mechanic article, one of the commenters said they used a 11 speed crank, 11 speed chain, and 10 speed cassette. However, that was Campy. Would there be a large difference between the Shimano and Campy for compatibility like this?

The article stated that the chain should match the chainring for good shifting up front. Since the 11 speed chain is narrower than the 10 speed chain (outer), I thought it would need to be used with a 11 speed RD, but would be fine to use on a 10 speed cassette since the inner width is nearly identical.