aluminummonster

Well, C&V land, I'm a little perplexed. Last weekend, I saw this post on Craigslist for a pretty orange Raleigh--the only descriptions being the title "Raleigh Bike" and the description "Reynolds 531 Tubing". So needless to say, I hit the ATM and two hours after the posting I brought her home. Here's where I'm stumped. It's got a Raleigh headbadge, and Carlton decals (what's left of them anyway). It's also got a Huret drivetrain, (soon to be a Suntour Cyclone drivetrain), Weinmann 999 centerpulls, GB Stem with a hole drilled in it for the front brake that acts as a cable stop, steel weinman rims on Normandy hubs, Atom Freewheel, GB bars, and I think a Williams cottered crank. So my question is: is this a Carlton made Raleigh? A Raleigh that thinks it's a Carlton? Or a Carlton that thinks it's a Raleigh? Overall, it rides like a dream. I just what to know what "it" is. Thanks, folks.

Cresthoodlum

Check the serial number on the bottom bracket.

This site has info for Raleighs

See Determining the Age of a Raleigh

TimmyT 

It's either a Super Course from around 1975 or a hair earlier, or it's a British market Carlton from the same time period ... maybe a Carlton Catalina or something like that.

Basically, it's a Super Course: 3 tubes straight gauge 531.

juvela

we are back in the early to mid 1960's here.

those williams chainsets disappeared by the late '60's.

USAZorro

+1 Given the cottered crank and mechs, I think it's closer to 1968.

kunsunoke 

Looks like a mid to late '60s Raleigh Carlton. Definitely a Carlton factory bike, if the braze-ons and the wrap-around seatstays are any indication.

The 531 tubes would at least be part of the main triangle, with the stays either being 531 or another lightweight steel alloy that the Carlton factory was using. The frame's probably as light as the one on my '64 Catalina, which had similar OEM parts.

They ride beautifully, by the way, especially when equipped with fat tubular tires.

Carltons are worthy steeds for Eroica-type events.

Peugeotlover

Raleigh purchased the Carlton bike factory.
So it is a Raleigh-Carlton.
It is a Carlton with a Raleigh brand name on it, Raleigh being the new owner.
If it were mine, I would call it a Carlton.

The wrap around seat stay is a nice feature. Late 1960's.
Use some Mother's Aluminum polish & steel wool on the bar & stem, shine it up.

I have one also, it is an excellent road bike.

dddd

My guess would be a 1966 Catalina (or perhaps a year after Raleigh acquired Carlton?).

The Catalina is roughly equivalent to Raleigh's Super Course model, but from the 1960's.

3 main Tubes are Reynolds 531 Plain Gage, same as the Super Course.

1964 Catalinas had Capella lugs and a decal declaring such. 1973 Raleighs, including Super Course models used these lugs as well for some reason.

That is a great bike there, worthy of nicer wheels, tires, freewheel, chain and whatever else it's owner would especially appreciate. I just completed over ten hours of work and subtle mods to the '73 Super Course I acquired just six days ago, and already have nearly 200 miles on it! I finally found an appropriate 25.4mm, wider (42cm) handlebar for it, re-wrapped the original factory tape onto it yesterday, and I very much feel this was all worthwhile.

lord_athlon

That looks like a Catalina, which I will say the same thing as everyone else. Its basically a Super Course.

nlerner

No need to guess--go right to the '67 catalog:



By the next year, the Carlton had become the SuperCourse.

USAZorro

and this specific one - without the oval badge, would likely pre-date 1967.

nlerner

Well, maybe, but it doesn't seem that Raleigh catalogs from '63-'66 exist online. I'd actually guess it's from '68 because the SuperCourse is shown that year in coffee brown without any panels on the seat tube or contrasting head tube. Kind of transition year, then, from Raleigh Carlton to Raleigh SuperCourse. I have a '69 SuperCourse, and by that point the lugs were different (though it has an oval head badge).

USAZorro

Sadly, the internet time machine overlooked those years. I was figuring pre '67, as I thought all the Worksop built bikes had the oval headbadge into 1970. Of course, with Raleigh, almost anything was possible. It's a really nice bike that should clean up wonderfully.

Steve Whitlatch 

That is pretty!! Great score!!

jeirvine 

That right there. The essence of C & V.

TimmyT 

^ Isn't that the hidiminium stem? It's probably the most valuable part attached to the frame.

3speedslow

YES^^^ The money shot !

peter_d

Very nice bike. The main tubes will undoubtedly be Reynolds 531 but unbutted. The crankset may or may not be Williams, Raleigh had their own cranks that looked very like Williams. Even if you change to Suntour derailleurs I'd be tempted to keep the Huret shifters, they're quite elegant.
If you can find a nice set of alloy wheels they would be a big improvement over the steel.

redneckwes

I'd love to find '64-'66 catalogs, no luck yet.

Beautiful bike by the way.

juvela

front mech is huret allvit as opposed to huret model 700 which launched 1966. this version of allvit rear launched 1962 so would tend to bracket dating.

aluminummonster

Thanks for all the great info everyone. I'm just gonna call it a Raleigh Carlton. I appreciate all the knowledge and compliments. It's my second Reynolds frame, and from my experience they don't disappoint--smooth as butter.

Anyway as soon as payday comes around, I'm going to be on the look-out for a set of sew-ups and a proper Brooks saddle.

On another note, these Weinmann calipers are missing the little red washers on both the front and rear, but there doesn't seem to be any issue with the braking abilities thus far--are they totally necessary? Also, does anyone have any experience with the Yellow Jersey 3 for 50 tubulars?

Peugeotlover

I have been using them for 3&1/2 years; about to order 3 more.
If money is limited, they are a good way to go- they keep you riding.
A good value, they work good enough.

The only time they have been trouble is when inflated over 100psi (they developed side bubbles at 110psi); they are hard at 100psi, so no need to inflate more than that. I go 100 rear 85 front.

Prowler 

I don't know about your calipers but on all the Weinmanns I've seen those red things are not washers - they are a top had shaped plastic thing. The ID on the caliper arm is much larger than the OD on the bolts. These red plastic top hats fit into front and rear of the each caliper arm and
a) provide a sleeve between the caliper arm and the bolt
b) provide a thrust washer between the bolt head and the arm and the arm and the bridge in the back
c) provide a spacer that prevents the bolt from being tightened too much to bind the caliper arm. Ensures that the arms pivot freely.

Now it may be the design on such early Weinmanns didn't use these but by '68 they did. The Raleigh GP I overhauled last winter had the red top hats on all four caliper arms.

dddd

The red plastic flanged bushings don't act as a spacer for the bolt to bottom against, that's the job of the 6x8mm steel sleeve that fits inside each pair of the red top-hats.
At least that's the case with the later calipers, post-mid-60's.
The earlier Weinmann calipers are much superior, not so much for their more-rigid, metal-on metal pivot interfaces, but for their use of stepped, hollow, threaded machined pivot studs that combine the nut with the sleeve and are integral to the bridge, which solves at least two problems that plague all of the plastic-bushed models from both Weinmann and Dia-Compe.

It's the cheap sleeve that is a simple, rolled, seamed tube which is compressed by the tightened bolt, smashing it's end into the softer metal of the bridge casting. If heavily tightened, the sleeve's effective length is reduced and the pivot will immediately bind. Then the bolt has to be left slack, with perhaps only Loctite then keeping the bolt from falling out!
Further, any attempt to toe-in the pads by twisting the arms similarly causes the rocking sleeve to dig into the cast bridge, resulting in a loss of rigidity and acceleration of the above-described deterioration.
Really the bushed calipers are a horrible design, and I am lucky enough to find un-damaged pivots on perhaps less than half of so-equipped vintage bikes that I buy.

Again, the earlier calipers integrate the bridge, nut and sleeve, making for a more-rigid, more-durable caliper that will never bind from simple bolt-tightening. They do require periodic lubrication however.
Note that Mafac calipers always integrated the sleeves with the bridge, both before and after plastic bushings were added to their design. Some of their advertising pointed this out.

On calipers with plastic bushings, I lubricate only with pure silicone oil from a squeeze bottle. Petro products may swell bushings and cause binding, as I have also seen occur inside of Weinman brake levers with their similar, white/clear plastic bushings. Just a small amount of friction can badly effect brake feel and modulation.

Prowler 

Argh! Yes, forgot about the sleeve. You're right. Posting just before turning in after a long day. Thanks.