CliffordK

Ok, I just purchased a used frame off of E-Bay.

It came with a mystery piece of tape/bag on the forks, as visible in the E-Bay photo (cropped).



The seller messed up on the shipping quote, as well as shipping the frame in a large full bike box, and demanded an extra $20 for shipping which I sent to him after the frame arrived (intact). Although, apparently E-Bay policy doesn't require buyers to cover shipping misquotes. No doubt I've also been overcharged for shipping many times.

Upon inspection, hiding under the tape was half a headset (crown race, upper and lower headtube races), left in the photo.



So, after sending the payment, I asked for the second half of the headset which the seller dropped in the mail the next day (right in photo).

The day after shipping the headset, the seller decided that he wanted the whole headset back. Both the part that was shipped with the frame, as well as the part that he mailed me.

Which means, when I build up the frame, I'll need to replace the headset myself. I don't need the "original" from the bike but I would like a nice one.

Somehow I fine it annoying that he keeps calling it HIS headset (which is now sitting here in my house).

So, what do I do? Keep it? Give it back? Sell it back? Ask for my $20 plus shipping back? Throw it up on E-Bay?

I have no doubt the seller intends to sell it, along with some additional components within the next few months (more details later).

Darth Lefty 

Strange case. I think I'd divide it into its components (pardon the pun) and address each individually.

If he wanted the headset back, why did he send you the other half?

If you now have a headset and you want to keep it and you didn't pay for it, pay for it or send it back.

If eBay didn't have the policy, I'd say you are owed nothing for the shipping quote bug. Unless you think he made something off it?

Also I might just pay the guy to go away if it were cheap enough.

degan

Man, I wouldn't have even paid him the extra $20 for shipping. He advertised a specific price, going back and demanding more is pretty sleezy. I say figure out fair market value for the headset and sell it back to him if he wants it.

randyjawa 

You are the Ebay buyer and nearly invincible to the wants, needs and or demands of the seller. Personally, I think the seller is a bit shady and I would not have sent him anything extra for the shipping cost, nor would I send him the headset.

Henry III

Keep the headset because as the buyer you've got the whole deck in your hand and ebay seller protection pretty much doesn't exist. If it said nothing in the auction about returning the headset then it's all yours. I had the same experience just a few days ago with the seller asking more for shipping even after I paid him. I told him keep the fork and refund my money because I paid you the second after you accepted my best offer and received the invoice. The next day I got a tracking number.

kunsunoke 

FTC says this - Unordered Merchandise | Consumer Information

Since you didn't order the headset and the seller shipped it to you by mistake you are legally entitled to it as a gift. If the guy gives you a hard time over it, send him the link and remind him that you paid his shipping overages - which were HIS fault to begin with.

eBay has the back of the buyer, not the seller. It's never the customer's responsibility to pay for the screw-ups of the seller. If the seller is giving you a hard time over this, you have the option of nuking his feedback profile - but be sure to be accurate in doing so. If you get a ding in return, eBay will remove it.

jyl

Keep the headset. Don't pay extra shipping.

easyupbug 

+1, When I sell a frame or bike I estimate the cost, if it's across the country I loose, if near I come out ahead. If I find extra stuff not listed I throw it in the box. Seller is a jerk, hope you give him appropriate feedback.

miamijim

Link to ad?

Brewsmith 

This. As far as I am concerned you did pay for the headset when you gave him $20 over the agreed total purchase price

Spaghetti Legs 

Another option: Send back the headset but charge him for shipping and make him pay $15 for removal of the races/cups.

I remember seeing that frame while I was searching for a Colnago fork. The tape was one of the things that scared me off. IMO you're entitled to keep the headset. In cases of proactive, friendly sellers, I try to work something out to make both parties happy.

rhm

If the original listing didn't explicitly state that the sale excluded the headset shown in the photo, then you had every reason to expect that it was included in the sale. By sending it, he acknowledged this. Was any other hardware included, such as bottom bracket, water bottle bolts, seat post pinch bolt, dropout adjusters?
I would tell him I assumed the headset was included and that I had factored this into the price I paid. He can have it back if he refunds the cost of a similar headset and shipping, so maybe $45.

Either that or I'd stop replying to his emails and be done with him.

gaucho777 

Colnago vintage Master bike frame

According to the seller, it was part of a 50th anniversary group he was planning to sell separately (he mentions this in the listing for the Colnago, though I don't see any of those parts in his sales history).

lord_athlon

Just keep it. He sent it to you. It was in the ad. He has just decided he can get another ~40 out of it, and wants to try. Its yours.

jeirvine 

You're done. Leave positive feedback, and move on withe the build.
-J

3alarmer 

...yeah. Life is short.

TimmyT 

The headset is yours. Enjoy the frame, build, and bike.

OTS 

^+1 and DONE

CliffordK

The lower half of the headset was in the photo, just hidden behind the tape.
Also included were the two dropout adjusters in good condition. Two generic cage bolts are visible in the photos and came too.

About 50% of frames with forks come with headsets (the cheap ones?), about 50% don't. It is also not unexpected to get frame races or crown races.
The races were off the frame, protected in a bag, but the old dried up masking tape on the fork was a pain to remove.
I don't consider it as much unordered... as they are frequently included with frames. And the second shipment would seem to acknowledge this. I was going to send some money to cover the shipping & extra hassle of finding the parts.

The issue is that after shipping, the seller changed his mind and decided it would benefit himself if he kept it, and can resell it later as part of the groupset.
Ahhh... can't hide anything in the world.

But, the 50th group is part of the problem. Apparently that era of Campy super-record headset was included with the 50th anniversary groupset. No golden rings, or anything else that sets it apart from the rest of the super-record headsets of the era. However, that is the reason he is wanting it back, and I will probably end up sending it back.

I hadn't thought of that connection when I requested the rest of the headset, and apparently he missed it when he shipped the frame and the lower half of the headset, followed by shipping the upper half of the headset.

The Campy SR headsets show up on E-Bay frequently, usually somewhere between $40 and $70, so not extremely expensive, but not free either, and not that rare.

Nonetheless, one should budget $50 or so to replace it.
The lower bearing (seen in photo above) is completely shot. Upper bearing looks good. The races are repairable. But, such damage could not occur from riding on a trainer.

=====

Yes, a comedy of errors on the part of the seller. I can't say in this auction for sure, but I do take into account shipping quotes on all E-Bay auctions, and messing up the quote in general messes up the bids.

Perhaps part of what rubs me wrong is my interpretation of his demanding approach. And, I've already covered one demand for more cash.

Lascauxcaveman 

I wouldn't give it back.

I have a little sympathy for the seller, but he needs to man up and swallow his loss - it was his mistake, and he had the parts in the auction pictures with no disclaimer "Auction is for frame + fork ONLY, not other parts shown." If I had bid on that auction, I would have expected everything in the photo unless explicitly told otherwise. He needs to learn how to write an item description if he's going to sell stuff online.

My seller's sympathy lies in the shipping estimate; eBay often gets it wrong, and if you further shoot yourself in the foot by packing too large, it can cost you a lot. My auctions for anything as large as a frameset always include a disclaimer: "eBay shipping estimates are often incorrect and the buyer will pay ACTUAL shipping from 98362"

CliffordK

Do you always refund any shipping overcharges, say beyond $5?

What grinds me is frequently getting overcharged with consolidated shipping costs. Of course, that is with different sellers.

cyclotoine

The seller made a mistake and agreed to send you the whole headset, he also made a mistake and overcharged you for shipping.

I would charge $20 for the inconvenience, The shipping cost and $20 for the extra shipping he charged you. If the seller is not agreeable to those terms I would keep the headset. That is fair and logical, you should not have to go out of your way and loose time and money for his mistakes. You are the customer.

3speedslow

All this is why I buy my bits and frames from this Forum. Stand up crowd here !

RobbieTunes

1-Determine actual shipping costs for a frame/fork. Which means a box under 108" Length + Girth, under 70lbs.
2-Deterimne what you actually paid, and if you paid excess, put that in the "you pay me" column. Packing and handling are not recognized.
3-Determine what your labor is to remove the pieces he wants back, put that in the "you pay me" column. Use 65% of bike shop hours, be reasonable.
4-Determine what shipping is to send him back the entire headset, put that in the "you pay me" column.

OK, now, ask him to pay the total of:
1-Shipping overcharge, if any.
2-Labor cost to remove headset pieces.
3-Shipping back to him.

If he agrees to pay it, fine. If not, the picture is your 1000 words, as the headset is in the picture.
You are not required to read between the lines of his ad.

I agree that the headset is important to him.
I agree that his group is worth more, and is more marketable, with the headset.
I don't agree that you should have paid any additional shipping. If I underestimate it, I eat it; he should.
I agree that he should pay shipping on the headset.
I agree that he should pay cost associated with headset piece removal.

In this situation, he's made all the choices, and is still making them.
If he was friendly about it, apologized and was willing to accommodate your removal and return of the headset, fine.
If he's not, well, tough kimchi. You've bent over backwards. Stop bending.

And I'd absolutely leave feedback relative to your experience, once it's all said and done, and block him out of your world.

Lascauxcaveman 

Hasn't happened yet.

That is, for me, the eBay estimated shipping has never been more than about $.50 over the actual shipping cost. But one time it was it was about $35 under; so that's why I always put in the "actual shipping cost" disclaimer. The one time it was a problem for the eventual buyer, we mutually agreed to cancel the sale.

I have also sold stuff with a high set shipping cost just to make sure I was covered no matter what, with a disclaimer saying something along the lines of "yes, I know the shipping cost is too high, but I can't get reliable estimates from eBay, so just consider that a part of the item's price, and don't bid if that sounds unreasonable to you."