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Old 01-21-16, 11:21 AM   #1
ericmerg1
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what have you done to your vintage?

I picked up my uncles 92' Raleigh Olympian to fix up and use as a cheap commuting bike to school. so far the upgrades I've done are

New bottom bracket and compact crankset

go from 6 speed freewheel to 7 speed cassette
new wheelset
carbon saddle
trimmed seatpost down
new cables
chain
clipless pedals
bartape

I plan on upgrading to dual pivot brakes and going to STI levers then I plan on being done after a polishing of everything.

so what have you done to your bikes since you got them?
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Old 01-21-16, 11:44 AM   #2
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All three 10-speeds now have 6-speed freewheels.
I built the Peugeot UO-8 from a bare frame, using all upgraded components, such as aluminum cranks and rims and SunTour barcons and rear derailleur.
I built a set of Campag. Gran Sport / Omega wheels for the Bianchi and moved its original Ofmega / Nisi wheelset to the Capo Modell Campagnolo.
The Bianchi now has Shimano aero brake handles in place of the original Modolos. The new levers fit my hands well and give me an additional 10% leverage, for better stopping power.
The Schwinn mountain bike now has new wheels, including an 8-speed cassette (custom-assembled from two sets of cogs) instead of the original 7-speed freewheel.
No STI.
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Old 01-21-16, 12:21 PM   #3
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The C&V section is mostly about what we've done to our old bikes. Read every thread for an answer to your question.
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Old 01-21-16, 12:45 PM   #4
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I've figured out that I like Suntour Command Shifters- so I've got them on a few bikes.

Most of my bikes I've kind of replaced original components with roughly period correct high end components.

It's a game.
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Old 01-21-16, 12:51 PM   #5
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Ridden them.
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Old 01-21-16, 12:52 PM   #6
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Oh, the stories we can all tell !
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Old 01-21-16, 01:12 PM   #7
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nishiki.....the frame, fork and seat post are original beyond that: Cold set frame, deore hub based wheels, sram 8 speed cassete, Campy ???? crank and BB, Deore rear derailler, Sunrace thumbshifters, Brooks B-17, nitto dirt drop stem, Nitto promenade bar, cork grips, new headset, shimano dual pivot brakes painted the whole thing.

Miyata: moved to ultegra 9 speed triple sti: ultegra rear hub, rebuilt wheels with velocity rims, Ultegra 9 speed cassette, ultegra trip crank, Durace BB, Ultegra 9 spd brifters, nitto stem, nitto dirt drop bars, ultegra dual pivot brakes brooks swift (there was an interim step with 9 spd durace barcons....didn't work for me)

Torpado: pretty much all original, replaced ofmega crank with similar ofmega crank, swapped out campy tipo/ambrosia elite clincher wheels for campy tipo/mavic tubular wheels
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Old 01-21-16, 02:36 PM   #8
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If it's an actual vintage bike then I usually do as little as possible. I consider consumables to be tires, cables, chain, brake pads, cables and saddle (depending).
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Old 01-21-16, 02:39 PM   #9
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The C&V section is mostly about what we've done to our old bikes. Read every thread for an answer to your question.
What he said.

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Old 01-21-16, 02:40 PM   #10
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Took an '83 Trek 700 frame & fork and built it into a full-on "rando a la francaise": 650b wheels & tires, MAFAC Raid brakes, VO aluminum fenders, dynohub lighting, 3x9 Shimano indexed drive train with dt shifters, Nitto 2-bolt NJS seatpost, Brooks C17, Nitto Grand Randonneur 'bar, TA front rack and Gilles Berthoud bar bag. In short, not an original component on it. And I love it to pieces!

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Old 01-21-16, 03:10 PM   #11
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Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Are the terms synonymous or is one a subset of the other, or what? Just trying to understand. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-21-16, 03:18 PM   #12
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I picked up my uncles 92' Raleigh Olympian to fix up....
so what have you done to your bikes since you got them?
Not much.

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Old 01-21-16, 03:23 PM   #13
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Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Are the terms synonymous or is one a subset of the other, or what? Just trying to understand. Thanks in advance.
This comes up about 4 times a year. Different shows, areas, organizations, etc. make their own rules and determine their own criteria. Time and people treat things different ways. The issue and questions are fraught with debate.

Some people would never consider a Kestrel to be classic carbon bike, though it's been around 30 years, while other consider a Giant Cadex to be a "classic" carbon bike. The Cinelli Super Corsa debuted in 1972, but you can buy a new one today. Not sure what that makes it, but a 1972 is a classic, for sure. Some think the Cervelo P3C is the "classic" triathlon bike, while others point to Dave Scott and Mike Pigg on Centurion Ironman bikes, modified for triathlon use, as "classic."

When I came to this forum, an older aluminum Cannondale would not be considered a classic, but they now have a following and have changed so much over the years, there are "classic" Cannondales. Klein models are fairly recent, but since Klein stopped being Kleins, many of the Klein models are considered "classic Kleins," because they have features and an appeal to a certain group of fans.

Vintage is often seen as older, with obsolete technology no longer used in it's most general form. Rod brakes, early production techniques, etc. My opinion is that there are not enough "vintage" bikes here; as there are a lot of really cool, really old bikes out there that never see the pages of Bike Forums Classic & Vintage. It takes longer to look one over thoroughly at a bike show than it does to look over 3-4 others that may be considered "classic."

Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Everyone has their own.

Are the terms synonymous? No.

Or is one a subset of the other, or what? No.

Just trying to understand. It's arbitrary, but customarily, needs to be accepted widely to be a criteria....or designated by an authority.
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Old 01-21-16, 03:33 PM   #14
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C&V is sort of like Porn, you know it when you see it.
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Old 01-21-16, 04:16 PM   #15
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This comes up about 4 times a year. Different shows, areas, organizations, etc. make their own rules and determine their own criteria. Time and people treat things different ways. The issue and questions are fraught with debate.

Some people would never consider a Kestrel to be classic carbon bike, though it's been around 30 years, while other consider a Giant Cadex to be a "classic" carbon bike. The Cinelli Super Corsa debuted in 1972, but you can buy a new one today. Not sure what that makes it, but a 1972 is a classic, for sure. Some think the Cervelo P3C is the "classic" triathlon bike, while others point to Dave Scott and Mike Pigg on Centurion Ironman bikes, modified for triathlon use, as "classic."

When I came to this forum, an older aluminum Cannondale would not be considered a classic, but they now have a following and have changed so much over the years, there are "classic" Cannondales. Klein models are fairly recent, but since Klein stopped being Kleins, many of the Klein models are considered "classic Kleins," because they have features and an appeal to a certain group of fans.

Vintage is often seen as older, with obsolete technology no longer used in it's most general form. Rod brakes, early production techniques, etc. My opinion is that there are not enough "vintage" bikes here; as there are a lot of really cool, really old bikes out there that never see the pages of Bike Forums Classic & Vintage. It takes longer to look one over thoroughly at a bike show than it does to look over 3-4 others that may be considered "classic."

Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Everyone has their own.

Are the terms synonymous? No.

Or is one a subset of the other, or what? No.

Just trying to understand. It's arbitrary, but customarily, needs to be accepted widely to be a criteria....or designated by an authority.
Thanks, your explanation was helpful.
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Old 01-21-16, 04:21 PM   #16
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Dale Brown's Classic Rendezvous google group has a clearly defined group of bikes that are the subject of discussion (although there is a small amount of fuzziness about the boundaries).

Some folks don't like boundaries, so the C&V group seems to please them. The result is that there is no definition (to my knowledge) of what bikes are suitable for discussion, so some folks may not be happy about that.

As far as what changes I've made to my bikes, the answer is "not much". I have some modern-ish bikes, so I keep my vintage bikes configured as original as possible, with a few concessions towards using modern consumables where they will have minimal impact. By chance, I'm quite happy with the technology from 30 or 40 years ago, so it's not a sacrifice at all.

One specific change I've made was to have my '74 Raleigh International clear-coated (very lightly) by Brian Baylis. The Raleigh decals of that era were very fragile, and I wanted to preserve a NIB bike....



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Old 01-21-16, 06:38 PM   #17
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Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Are the terms synonymous or is one a subset of the other, or what? Just trying to understand. Thanks in advance.
My favorite definition of classic is, "A work of enduring excellence". No mention of age.

To me "vintage" means "old". No mention of quality.

So you can have a modern classic (a brand new custom Peter Weigle rando) or a vintage POS (Huffy Aerowind). Or a bike that's both vintage AND classic (a 1960's Cinelli Speciale Corsa).

'Course that's just my take on it. YMMV

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Old 01-21-16, 08:04 PM   #18
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Vintage is often seen as older, with obsolete technology no longer used in it's most general form.


Just curious, what criteria is used to determine if a bicycle is classic or vintage? Everyone has their own.

Are the terms synonymous? No.

Or is one a subset of the other, or what? No.

[/B]

Those are great answers to those questions.

Me, personally... "vintage" to me has to do with the properties of the age or the year the item was produced. For example- for the most part, prior to 1985, bikes are going to have the cables above the bottom bracket shell.

So when I think to what makes a "modern" bike "modern," I think of the time period when those modern traits became established. Although I'm not a huge fan of lugs, by like 1994 most every steel bike was TIG welded. Additionally, Suntour had pretty much ceased to exist. Additionally, Shimano's Deore XT had just changed shape and the XTR group had just been released. So for me, around 1994 is a good cutoff. It has nothing to do with 20 or 25 years or whatever arbitrary number people assign to it- it's about the characteristics of that time period.

To me- "classic" means those desirable traits that are no longer "modern." While a bike can currently be built with lugs and the general aesthetic of a bike of 35 years ago- that, to me is "classic." It has those traits. Because those traits are not a part of what makes a modern bike now; it being built now, it's not "vintage."

Conversely, bikes can be made a long time ago and not be "classic" in that they can be made in the time frame when desirable traits were the norm- but not exhibit those desirable traits. And it's going to depend on what you think is, or what is generally considered desirable.


To drag this way off course... I like guitars. To me, mass made guitars had a whole different aesthetic prior to 1970. Thin nitrocellulose lacquers were the norm for the finishes. Generally, rosewood fingerboards were made of Brazillian Rosewood, but around 1970 the fingerboards got lighter in color. Gibson had just been bought out by ECL, Fender had been bought out by CBS- and a lot of the changes that those parent companies instituted started becoming entrenched in the industry. For Gibson, the finishes got thicker, with a higher percentage of polyurethane- resulting in a 'plastic-y' feel. The angle of the headstock was less pitched backward, the headstocks got wider (like leisure suit lapels), the tenon construction was altered from the crafted and fashioned long tenon to the short 'rocker' tenon. The name "Gibson" got emblazoned on different parts, like pickup covers and tuners. With Fender, the finishes changed similarly, the headstocks got wider and bigger, the fret position markers on some models changed from dots to blocks.

Regardless of how many people find those gaudy 1970s traits desirable- those aren't "classic" to me. It's cool that anyone else consider them what they want to consider them- but the characteristics of the older stuff is just "better."
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Old 01-22-16, 09:25 AM   #19
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Those are great answers to those questions.
Quote:
Thanks
.

To drag this way off course... I like guitars. To me, mass made guitars had a whole different aesthetic prior to 1970. Thin nitrocellulose lacquers were the norm for the finishes. Generally, rosewood fingerboards were made of Brazillian Rosewood, but around 1970 the fingerboards got lighter in color. Gibson had just been bought out by ECL, Fender had been bought out by CBS- and a lot of the changes that those parent companies instituted started becoming entrenched in the industry. For Gibson, the finishes got thicker, with a higher percentage of polyurethane- resulting in a 'plastic-y' feel. The angle of the headstock was less pitched backward, the headstocks got wider (like leisure suit lapels), the tenon construction was altered from the crafted and fashioned long tenon to the short 'rocker' tenon. The name "Gibson" got emblazoned on different parts, like pickup covers and tuners. With Fender, the finishes changed similarly, the headstocks got wider and bigger, the fret position markers on some models changed from dots to blocks.

Regardless of how many people find those gaudy 1970s traits desirable- those aren't "classic" to me. It's cool that anyone else consider them what they want to consider them- but the characteristics of the older stuff is just "better."
These killer details, from a man right in the heart of Les Paul country.
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Old 01-22-16, 01:59 PM   #20
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Things I changed on my 86' Centurion Ironman , first let me say I wanted to keep it fairly much period correct . The biggest stray away from that was double pivot brakes made by Tektro they weren't expensive and they work / look really good , and Shimano levers . The original brakes were bronze colored Dia- Compe aero's but I did stay with the aero type. The seat post that is standard on my bike although strong and light was ugly , so I got a beautiful, fluted Laparde . It is heavy . I converted over to tubular wheels . I put a chrome fork on it but it just didn't
look right so I took it off . New bar tape and cables new straps for the Shimano 600 pedals and a complete disassemble and grease and adjust . Still to go , a Shimano 600 AX stem and seat post , cost for that will be around $ 200. but I started a new bike so I'm sayin' good enough for now on the CIM .

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Old 01-22-16, 06:19 PM   #21
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One specific change I've made was to have my '74 Raleigh International clear-coated (very lightly) by Brian Baylis. The Raleigh decals of that era were very fragile, and I wanted to preserve a NIB bike....



Steve in Peoria
Do you know what type of clearcoat was used? Have the same bike. Love it.
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Old 01-22-16, 06:37 PM   #22
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Taking the bars, stem, pedals, cabling and saddle off the McLean.

On goes Nitto Dreams, a Cinelli 1a, Jagwire Racer titanium, a Brooks Swift and hopefully, a used set of Super Record levers.

Compass 700x35 Bon Jon Pass will round it out.

Gonna share my Frost River bag with my Hollands.

Sticker shock.
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Old 01-22-16, 06:50 PM   #23
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so what have you done to your bikes since you got them?
Ride them.

Clean them.

Maintenance.

If I want a change, I'll get another bike.
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Old 01-22-16, 07:54 PM   #24
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Do you know what type of clearcoat was used? Have the same bike. Love it.
No idea.

When Brian Baylis said that he'd do it, that was all I needed to hear! The guy was an amazing frame builder and painter.

I think there are some concerns, in general, about the compatibility of the solvents in the clear coats and the decals and transfers on the frame.

wait a second... after poking through my archives, I find that I did keep some of the relevant correspondence from the Classic Rendezvous list at the time (circa 2000). Here's the posting from Brian Baylis. Note that he does mention Dupont Imron as being well suited.....


"I don't think there is a black or white answer to that question. Some of
whether that would be wise or not depends on what you intend for the
bikes future. If you plan to keep the bike and ride it then one would
benifit from that in the long run. If you plan to off it to a hard-nosed
type collector it may be a mistake. There are numerous other factors
that enter into the question depending on the bike involved. My
experience has been that some projects benifit tremendously from a clear
coat, like the 1969 Masi Special I just restored for myself. After
cleaning and touch-up of dings and scratches I found that the decals
were dry and "thirsty". I clear coated the whole frame (except the head
badge) and it really did the trick. The touch-up areas blended
magnificently and the decals brightened and are now sealed for all time.
The best part is that had I not told you I clear coated it, not even I
could tell in THIS case, because I "aged" it a bit. If you leave it like
a normal final clear coat it will look too glossy. One important point.
So far nothing has ever approached the overall suitability of DuPont
Imron paint, especially for clear coats. If one chooses to clear coat an
older frame sooner is better than later.

That's my story and I sticking to it.

Brian Baylis"

there was a follow-up question about Imron being most suited. Brian gave this response...

"The trait I have noticed about Imron is that it has a superior
"flexability" that I have never found in any other paint I've ever tried
or seen in use. It is also completely clear which many clears are not.
The important thing about flexability is that when scratched it does not
come off in chips, which is the main property of brittle paint. It is
too hard and does not stick well to what is under it. The last thing a
bicycle should have is paint that can't survive scratches and pressure
points. Imron is also very compatable with many other toners etc.
allowing the "artist" to create colors and effects that boggle the
imagination of your typical paint store employee. Imron is versitile.
The one Imron is NOT, is inexpensive! I have been a professional biycyle
painter for 25 years now, and I know a good product when I taste(Oops),
see one. Took a shot of Imron once, didn't swallow it, but it was an
unpleasent experience none the less. Cured me of bringing a dixie cup of
water to my paint bench for good.

Brian(I'd like to make a toast)Baylis"

There was a continuing discussion of clearcoat .... you might check the Classic Rendezvous archives on search.bikelist.org (although it seems to be down right now).

Steve in Peoria
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Old 01-23-16, 12:36 AM   #25
Narhay
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
That's a very nice centurion carbon bike you will have there.
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