mark_m

Non-stock brakes on my newly acquired '74 Motobecane Le Champion look to me like they were intended maybe for 27" vs 700C, does that seem correct? I just put these new pads on and realized that I can't get the pads down low enough to angle up parallel to the rim edge. Should I let them wear in angled like this or look for different brakes, for instance the Universals that were stock, or other?

Salamandrine 

Swap 'em. Don't compromise with brakes. Get some with the proper reach. Those are cool brakes for an 80s bike, but don't look right for a 74 anyway.

gugie 

You might try some different brake shoes if you want to keep the brakes. If you swap the brakes, MAFAC 2000's are a deeper reach than the Competitions, and have the same shiny look.

72Paramount

Bend them until they are flush.

Lascauxcaveman 

Do they stop OK? They don't look great like that, but with brakes, I'm more of function-over-form kinda guy.

CliffordK

Hmmm...
Does your frame have Campagnolo dropouts?

I wouldn't worry too much about the angle on the pads. They'll wear flat soon enough. The bigger issue is that the pads could encroach on the tires as they wear.

Try it for a while, but start hunting for some good long-reach brake callipers. But, before you do anything, first check the branding on your dropouts (front and rear).

smontanaro 

@CliffordK Not sure what the dropout brand has to do with the OP's problem. Can you expand on that?

Ex Pres 

Didn't someone on here provide a link to some offset pads in an earlier thread?

Edit: a quick web search found several options, so there may be some out there that would fit this style. The downside is they won't look stock.
Edit2: unfortunately I only found the screw/bolt option, not one with a post. May not be an option.

smontanaro 

Weren't those offset holders for side pull brakes? These are the ones I remember:

Aican Aluminum Bike Bicycle C Brake Shoes for Shimano SRAM Silver | eBay


Not sure how you'd get them to work with the MAFAC arms.

Grand Bois

Slot the brake mounting bolt hole like a MAFAC Competition.

Wilfred Laurier

Has the bike been converted to 700C? Because your problem is a common one when that switch is made. If those are the wheels and brakes that were on the bike when you bought it, it is likely the previous owner also had some ugly halfassed solution to get the brakes to line up. If I were you, and I was more concerned about braking than period correctness (PC) then I would get a set of modern double pivot long reach brakes... those old centrepull brakes are pretty poor at the best of times in my experience, and the further down you slide the pads in their slot the more force you need to apply at the lever to get the bike to stop. So my suggestion is: measure the vertical distance from the brake mounting hole to the centre of the rim and get modern brakes that will work. Example: Tektro BigMouth 59 Brakes R539 - 15150

davester

At least some years of Moto Le Champion came with those brakes so they very well could be stock. However, as you note the reach is such that they are pretty obviously for 27" wheels. They both look goofy and the braking is compromised with 700c wheels. If I were you I'd either search for some long reach Mafacs or fins another period brake set (Campy perhaps) with a sufficient reach, or possible go back to 27" wheels.

pressed001

Perhaps the easiest solution is to buy a pad with a longer fixing bolt. Then do as @CliffordK suggested and let them wear flat, then keep an eye on them so they don't start rubbing your tire after time.

https://www.koolstop.com/english/eagle2.html

smontanaro 

From a recent post by Jan Heine to the internet-BOB group:

So someone seems to like them.

Wilfred Laurier

Jan Heine likes a lot of things that have otherwise gone away for good reason.

Salamandrine 

It is a matter of function, not form. If the pads don't hit the rims squarely because the brakes are the wrong length, they will eventually hit the tire as the pads start to wear, causing a blow out.

No. That bike would have come with tubulars, which are the same size as 700c. It is however possible it was converted to 27" clinchers back in the 70s. That was the most common clincher size then -- in NA at least.

TimmyT 

Can you post a pic of this?

There are different length brakes that could work for you:

smontanaro 

Still, of all the brakes he could have used as the template for Compass brakes (yes, including dual pivot side pulls) he liked the MAFAC brakes well enough to base the Compass brakes on them and not mess with the geometry when producing Compass brakes. Given that Compass components are intended for serious randonneuring, I would tend to trust he knows of what he speaks/writes.

Salamandrine 

Here's the specs, btw. Spec'd originally with Weinmanns or Universal 61.

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalog...4/11_specs.jpg

Wilfred Laurier

Maybe the MAFACs are the best of the centrepulls, but that's not saying much. Road bike brakes made a very big leap forward in the early nineties when dual pivot calipers came out.
I believe he stuck with that centrepull design because of the cool retro style, not the function - there are already loads of good modern brakes, so he has no marketing advantage like he does if he sells unique retro-styled stuff. EDIT: OMFG! Those Compass brakes are over THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!

Grand Bois

Slotting the brake mounting bolt hole costs nothing and it works.

Bikerider007

IMO, swap and do it right, especially on a top tier model.

Salamandrine 

Center pulls work just fine. A properly set up Mafac can just about squeeze a dent in your rim, and they work better with fenders, if that matters to you. Dual pivots have more mechanical advantage, so less hand force is required, but the brakes have to be closer to the rim. Also, they tend to be stiffer than old brakes, so less force is lost in flexing the arms. Cables end housing tend to be better than the old ones too, not to mention pads.

The disadvantage of higher MA brakes is that if you brake a spoke, especially with a modern 28 hole rim, you are stuck.

Dual pivots actually came out in the 60s, BTW. Look up GB synchron. When the modern dual pivots came out and I set up a bike with them for the first time, my initial impression was: they feel like Mafacs!

CliffordK

Absolutely.
The spacing between the brake bridge and the rim seems to be quite long. Most of the Motobecane bikes came with 27" wheels and may have also had space for fenders.

This is from the 1974 catalog as listed by the OP. Other years are similar.
Motobecane catalog (1974)

The Grand Record and the Le Champion are listed to use tubular (700c wheels). All others are listed as having 27" wheels.

The Grand Record and the Le Champion are also listed as using Campy dropouts.

So, looking at the dropouts would give a quick verification that the frame is likely a Le Champion or Grand record, and was actually designed for 700c wheels.

Wilfred Laurier

I know others have had different experiences from me, but I have used MAFACS (cantis and Racers), as well as Weinmann brakes, set up with modern housing and aftermarket pads, and the dual pivots are superior... your mention of less hand force is, IMO, the same as saying 'they work better'... the main advantage of dual pivots, though, is not the mechanical advantage, but the ease and consistency of centring them compared to single pivots and centrepulls, which allows for higher MA and the resulting smaller clearance. Also, most (or all) dual pivot brakes have a quick release that can be flipped open if the rim is running significantly out of true.