CliffordK

Campy puts their release in the levers which changes the position of the levers, although potentially still ridable.

There are lots of side-pull brakes that are still functional. The trick is to match the levers with the brakes.

Bikedued

I am currently running two sets of Mafacs like these. They're both set up with low profile mtb style shoes, and stopping power is similar to V brakes, but with way more modulation. They also don't squeal or howl at all. I have run into the squealing with stock pads though.,,,,BD

I am not sure how dual pivot calipers are even relevant in this discussion?

smontanaro 

They aren't, really. I was just pointing out that Jan had every brake available for comparison when working on the Compass brake design.

mark_m

I answered some of these posts on the bus the other day but apparently they didn't go through, apologies. I'll repeat some things.

As originally posted, the brakes are non-stock, and the bike is a '74 Le Champion. It originally would have had Universal 61's and tubulars/700C.

It's become obvious these brakes were intended for 27" and are too short for this bike. I just replaced the pads with Kool-Stop salmons and the wear pattern on the old ones was awful and it was clear that the new ones can't be aligned properly with these calipers. I don't understand the concept of slotting the mounting hole, but it doesn't sound appealing to me in any case (thanks nonetheless for the suggestion).

I'm inclined to look for replacement brakes that would be of correct period and either equivalent to or upgrade from the Universal 61's. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Is it a given I'll need to replace the entire brake system from pads to levers? I'm going to be trying some different handlebars so it will be a convenient time to change whatever needs changed...

mark_m

p.s. thanks for all the input so far

fender1

Get a set of MAFAC Racers. Cheap and you can use all of your hardware etc. If you want to, Compass bikes sells replacement bushings and parts for MAFAC brakes. I put new brass bushings and thrust washers in two sets of racers and they work great.

mark_m

I noticed and like that Compass sells replacement parts (in addition to their pricey brake sets

In poking around I've found reference to long reach, short reach and adjustable reach versions of each of the Mafac calipers. I assume the adjustable reach version must be the slotted version mentioned by Gran Bois. It may be I have the short reach version of the late Competitions, which presumably were for use on 27" bikes while the long reach would have seen duty on 700C bikes. That's the best I can make of it anyway.

Are the Racers better than the Competitions or 2000's? Or are the differences cosmetic, other than reach? It looks like it might be possible to find any of these in the longer reach or adjustable reach versions. ?? And I'd assume that the longer reach versions are going to be less powerful than the shorter reach, for any given brake.
(chart)

CliffordK

Another option is to install some kind of a "Drop Bolt" or adapter. Several models are available.

For example, something like this one.
BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping

mark_m

The drop bolt seems like a fair enough solution and if I was attached to the Competitions I might go for it. But I'd just as soon get something that's sized to fit the bike, as long as I'm mucking around with it.

I see some of the Racers listed as "Steel", what's up with that?

mark_m

Also, since I have a non-stock fork anyway, I'm considering brazed-on pivots in front. Has anyone here done this? Seems like it could be a good improvement. I've been wanting to repaint the fork to match the bike anyway so it would make a nice little project (not that I need one

due ruote 

I think what Grand Bois was suggesting is taking a Dremel or similar tool and elongating the existing mounting slot so the pad can sit lower. I don't see anything wrong with the suggestion.

Fwiw I like my centerpulls (Weinmann).

trailangel

Dia-Compe #610 Centerpull Brake - Brakes - Brakes & Parts - Components

noglider 

I think MAFAC went out of business not because there was anything wrong with their brakes but because nothing was wrong with them. The market wants to see changes, but changes were not necessary. MAFAC didn't change sufficiently, so the market went with new stuff that is not superior.

kroozer 

Get some Weinmann's or Universal 61/68's with the longer rear calipers. I also have an early 70's Le Champion that currently has the same Mafac Competition brakes as the OP's, and even with 27" wheels I have to angle the pads down to hit the rims. I'll be switching them out for some Universal 68's, they're cheap and with good pads and housing they work fine.

CliffordK

Slot the mounting holes in the callipers for the pads, not the mounting hole in the frame.

Just drop the pads down that critical 1/8" or so. You do damage the callipers, but unless they are something very rare, just make them work for your needs.

One of the advantages of the drop bolts or similar mounts is that it preserves the intended geometry of the brake callipers. I don't know how big of a deal that is, but for a long reach arm, you are potentially increasing the flex in the callipers, increasing the movement of the arms (maybe good), but also decreasing the leverage.

You may get some system flex from the drop configuration, but not between the brake levers and callipers.

The advantage of long reach callipers would be with mounting oversized tires or fenders.

mark_m

Got it, yeah I don't think there's enough meet there to slot as far as it would take...Thanks.

mark_m

Thanks - I've read enough about the Weinmann's (which my brother's G.R. had) and the Mafacs but nothing about the Universals, how they compare etc. Universal 61's were what would have been sold on this bike.

mark_m

Good reasoning, makes sense. Seems to me the drop link would also add possibility of the top of the caliper to move laterally. Don't know whether it would or what that would do. Maybe the way it fits to the bottom of the fork eliminates that... Still I think less clean than a longer reach brake and I'm sure they exist that work well enough when put in proper tune.

CliffordK

Your photo was of the rear triangle.

The fork drops looked quite cool, fitting a sleeve up into the bottom of the fork. Although I could imagine that being problematic with quite a few fork crowns. It may almost have to be custom made/fit for each fork.

So, it sounds like new brakes are on your menu.

Our local bike co-op has a couple of big buckets of miscellaneous Weinmann center pull brake callipers. They should be easy to find elsewhere for quite cheap.

For the Weinmann callipers, some have a pin to keep them centered, some don't. Look at them carefully.

old's'cool

There's no arguing that brakes have improved generation by generation, market positioning being equal. But it does not follow that older brakes are inadequate. How would highly bankrolled TdF and other world class teams have ever tolerated inadequate brakes, in any era?
For myself, my riding style and routes, I have never found decent vintage brakes, properly set up and maintained, to be inadequate.
I have enough strength and endurance in my hands and wrists to manage just fine with original and/or period correct brakes on my vintage rides. Throw in new, modern housings and Koolstop pads, and I could easily endo any of my bikes on dry pavement, if that's what I wanted to do.
On the other end of the braking force spectrum, I have no problem with modulation when braking lightly, either.
As for setting up/adjusting, for me that is part of the hobby; that said, I have never had to expend undue time or effort in that regard.
None of my setups present any problem with wheel removal due to brake interference with the inflated tire, quick-release or not. YMMV.

mark_m

Re. Weinmann, thanks I'll keep an eye out for the centering pin. Re. my fork, there are more pics HERE - The fork is an unidentified (possibly Raleigh Professional) non-stock 531 fork with an inch more rake than stock. I was unsure about this at first and assumed I'd find a stock fork to replace it but two things happened simultaneously - a) I discovered it's not easy to find a stock fork for a 61 cm Le Champion, and b) it's kind of appropriate for me, a bit softer more stable fork that is completely appropriate to the kind of riding I want to do.
I would love to get a great set of brakes on this bike.

mark_m

And yes new brakes are totally on my menu

crank_addict

Spotted yesterday at a Chicago swap meet a 90% complete MAFAC brakeset. Hangers were missing. Near new OEM pads, excellent calipers, the levers were aluminum but with the cheapo black plastic body / main support. One cable adjuster missing. $25 for all. Quite sure they were still there at the end of the show. However found their ad on CL and perhaps it helps someone out. Good luck~

Bikes and Parts

crank_addict

In the old days and to mate brake 'shoes' in the drum of an old car was to arc them. Nasty ordeal but one would simply sand the ends of a shoe to match the arc of the brake drum. So in relation, one could do the same with that MAFAC bike brake but why not get a bevel washer and adjust accordingly?

Wilfred Laurier

They are experts in bicycle handling, that's how. Think of NASCAR - technologically backwards cars (compared to other modern racing cars) driven at ludicrous speeds. I couldn't drive one of those things around a track, and I probably couldn't handle Eddy's '69 TdF winning bike on a twisty mountain descent. Edit: Also, please note that I didn't say vintage brakes are inadequate - just that modern ones are superior. I was never satisfied with the brakes on my vintage rides, but they never caused me to crash or lose control, either. My point (and I think I was the one who initially brought up double pivot sidepulls in this thread) was that if the OP's bike is intended as a rider (instead of a collector or showpiece), long-reach dual pivots will make it a better bike to ride.