Mystery Frame 3000
01-31-16, 09:02 PM
#1
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Mystery Frame 3000
Picked this up at the Chicago Swap, mostly because i was curious to find out what it is. doesn't even fit me.
Clearly re-sprayed.
No DT bosses.
Campy drop outs.
Light.
Italian BB
BB Stamped with number.
Accepts a 27.2mm seat post
A few people suggested early Trek or Specialized or [STRIKE]Raleigh[/STRIKE].
Thoughts?
Clearly re-sprayed.
No DT bosses.
Campy drop outs.
Light.
Italian BB
BB Stamped with number.
Accepts a 27.2mm seat post
A few people suggested early Trek or Specialized or [STRIKE]Raleigh[/STRIKE].
Thoughts?
Last edited by Seabass_First; 02-01-16 at 11:38 PM.
01-31-16, 09:56 PM
#2
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"Italian BB (supposedly, i have no easy way of testing that)"
i've never had one, but don't italian bb fixed cups thread in to the right, like a french bb?
except for the wide seam of the rear brake bridge, it looks very nice.
i've never had one, but don't italian bb fixed cups thread in to the right, like a french bb?
except for the wide seam of the rear brake bridge, it looks very nice.
Last edited by eschlwc; 01-31-16 at 09:59 PM.
02-01-16, 04:17 AM
#4
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No, that's not right. An Italian shell is quite a bit bigger, and the English cup won't engage at all. You can push an English adjustable cup straight through an Italian bottom bracket shell, in one side and out the other.
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02-01-16, 09:51 AM
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I can't help with ID, but gotta say I love the paint.
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02-01-16, 09:52 AM
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Italian bottom brackets are 36mm ID, so an English or metric bottom bracket cup is too small to engage the threads.
Doesn't look like a Trek to me. And Raleighs tended to wrap the seat stay ends higher on the lug. The seamed brake bridge is something I've seen on Italian frame:
A few people suggested early Trek or Specialized or Raleigh.
02-01-16, 10:41 AM
#8
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I get a "European" vibe from it. And that bb shell is somewhat distinctive - early cast (vs stamped)? Overall look is pretty high-ish end production. Any idea what size seatpost it takes?
SP
OC, OR
SP
OC, OR
02-01-16, 01:11 PM
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oc = whats that?
Or = whats that?
Sp = 27.2
02-01-16, 01:40 PM
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Outside Circumference and Overall Radius.
Or it could be that S.P. is from Oregon City, Oregon.
Or it could be that S.P. is from Oregon City, Oregon.
02-01-16, 02:08 PM
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That isn't any Raleigh serial numbering that I'm familiar with. 99.99% sure you can scratch that as a possibility.
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02-01-16, 09:23 PM
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Confirmed! Italian BB. Could this be a home-made frame? why would it have a serial number stamped in the BB?
should i remove the paint around the serial to figure out what that first number is?
should i remove the paint around the serial to figure out what that first number is?
02-01-16, 10:59 PM
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Exactamundo!
I think the headset is an older Chris King unit. I had one like that in the mid-'80's.
The frame is weird- guides for the shift cables but no guides for the brake cable. That would make it early '80's, I think. The brake cable guides could have been filed off though.
I think the headset is an older Chris King unit. I had one like that in the mid-'80's.
The frame is weird- guides for the shift cables but no guides for the brake cable. That would make it early '80's, I think. The brake cable guides could have been filed off though.
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Last edited by Jeff Wills; 02-01-16 at 11:04 PM.
02-02-16, 12:13 AM
#14
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an overall picture 
02-02-16, 01:40 AM
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If not Italian, maybe French? The thin lugs and seat-stay ends are a style common on Merciers in particular (like this) but others as well. Rear hanger and fork dropouts throw me a bit, both seem more modern than the rest of the bike... maybe early 80's?
[strike]Could you post a full frame picture, not just details?[/strike]
Here's the short list of makers that produced steel frame bikes with 27.2mm seat posts:
Austro-Daimler
Bates
Battaglin
Bianchi
Bottecchia
Bridgestone
Calfee
Cannondale
Carlton
Carrera
Casati
Cinelli
Ciöcc
Colnago
Condor
Dawes
Debernardi
De Rosa
Dean
Diamondback
Faggin
Fastab
Fisher
Fondriest
Fuji
Dave Moulton Fuso
Giant
Giordana
Gios
GT
Guerciotti
Habañero
Heron
Hetchins
Holdsworth
Ibis
Iron Horse
Bob Jackson
Jamis
Kestrel
Klein
Kona
Lemond
Litespeed
Lotus
Madwagon
Marin
Marinoni
Masi
Mercian
Eddy Merckx
Merlin
Dave Moulton Fuso
Mountain Goat
Nakamura
Nobilette
Novarra
On One
Orbit
Pinarello
Pogliaghi
Principia
Proflex
Pinarello
Raleigh
Rivendell
Rocky Mountain
Salsa
3Rensho
Santa Cruz
Schwinn
Serotta
Seven
Simonetti
Specialized
Stowe
Super Go
Surly
Thorn
Trek
VolksCycle
Voo Doo
Waterford
Wheeler
Whitcomb USA
Windsor
Zullo
Plug and chug and you should eventually narrow it down.
[strike]Could you post a full frame picture, not just details?[/strike]
Here's the short list of makers that produced steel frame bikes with 27.2mm seat posts:
Austro-Daimler
Bates
Battaglin
Bianchi
Bottecchia
Bridgestone
Calfee
Cannondale
Carlton
Carrera
Casati
Cinelli
Ciöcc
Colnago
Condor
Dawes
Debernardi
De Rosa
Dean
Diamondback
Faggin
Fastab
Fisher
Fondriest
Fuji
Dave Moulton Fuso
Giant
Giordana
Gios
GT
Guerciotti
Habañero
Heron
Hetchins
Holdsworth
Ibis
Iron Horse
Bob Jackson
Jamis
Kestrel
Klein
Kona
Lemond
Litespeed
Lotus
Madwagon
Marin
Marinoni
Masi
Mercian
Eddy Merckx
Merlin
Dave Moulton Fuso
Mountain Goat
Nakamura
Nobilette
Novarra
On One
Orbit
Pinarello
Pogliaghi
Principia
Proflex
Pinarello
Raleigh
Rivendell
Rocky Mountain
Salsa
3Rensho
Santa Cruz
Schwinn
Serotta
Seven
Simonetti
Specialized
Stowe
Super Go
Surly
Thorn
Trek
VolksCycle
Voo Doo
Waterford
Wheeler
Whitcomb USA
Windsor
Zullo
Plug and chug and you should eventually narrow it down.
Last edited by burnfingers; 02-02-16 at 01:42 AM. Reason: pic posted while typing
02-02-16, 11:13 AM
#16
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If not Italian, maybe French? The thin lugs and seat-stay ends are a style common on Merciers in particular (like this) but others as well. Rear hanger and fork dropouts throw me a bit, both seem more modern than the rest of the bike... maybe early 80's?
[strike]Could you post a full frame picture, not just details?[/strike]
Here's the short list of makers that produced steel frame bikes with 27.2mm seat posts:
Austro-Daimler
Bates
Battaglin
Bianchi
Bottecchia
Bridgestone
Calfee
Cannondale
Carlton
Carrera
Casati
Cinelli
Ciöcc
Colnago
Condor
Dawes
Debernardi
De Rosa
Dean
Diamondback
Faggin
Fastab
Fisher
Fondriest
Fuji
Dave Moulton Fuso
Giant
Giordana
Gios
GT
Guerciotti
Habañero
Heron
Hetchins
Holdsworth
Ibis
Iron Horse
Bob Jackson
Jamis
Kestrel
Klein
Kona
Lemond
Litespeed
Lotus
Madwagon
Marin
Marinoni
Masi
Mercian
Eddy Merckx
Merlin
Dave Moulton Fuso
Mountain Goat
Nakamura
Nobilette
Novarra
On One
Orbit
Pinarello
Pogliaghi
Principia
Proflex
Pinarello
Raleigh
Rivendell
Rocky Mountain
Salsa
3Rensho
Santa Cruz
Schwinn
Serotta
Seven
Simonetti
Specialized
Stowe
Super Go
Surly
Thorn
Trek
VolksCycle
Voo Doo
Waterford
Wheeler
Whitcomb USA
Windsor
Zullo
Plug and chug and you should eventually narrow it down.
[strike]Could you post a full frame picture, not just details?[/strike]
Here's the short list of makers that produced steel frame bikes with 27.2mm seat posts:
Austro-Daimler
Bates
Battaglin
Bianchi
Bottecchia
Bridgestone
Calfee
Cannondale
Carlton
Carrera
Casati
Cinelli
Ciöcc
Colnago
Condor
Dawes
Debernardi
De Rosa
Dean
Diamondback
Faggin
Fastab
Fisher
Fondriest
Fuji
Dave Moulton Fuso
Giant
Giordana
Gios
GT
Guerciotti
Habañero
Heron
Hetchins
Holdsworth
Ibis
Iron Horse
Bob Jackson
Jamis
Kestrel
Klein
Kona
Lemond
Litespeed
Lotus
Madwagon
Marin
Marinoni
Masi
Mercian
Eddy Merckx
Merlin
Dave Moulton Fuso
Mountain Goat
Nakamura
Nobilette
Novarra
On One
Orbit
Pinarello
Pogliaghi
Principia
Proflex
Pinarello
Raleigh
Rivendell
Rocky Mountain
Salsa
3Rensho
Santa Cruz
Schwinn
Serotta
Seven
Simonetti
Specialized
Stowe
Super Go
Surly
Thorn
Trek
VolksCycle
Voo Doo
Waterford
Wheeler
Whitcomb USA
Windsor
Zullo
Plug and chug and you should eventually narrow it down.
Last edited by Seabass_First; 02-02-16 at 03:52 PM.
02-02-16, 03:01 PM
#17
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i refuse to let this die in an un marked grave. Bump.
02-02-16, 05:27 PM
#18
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i just combed through all the italian bike makers on classicredezuous looking for a match... no luck matching the frame but i DID find this... BONUS!
NSFW:
Atala publicity shot
NSFW:
Atala publicity shot
02-02-16, 05:41 PM
#19
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An Italian threaded bottom bracket practically eliminates British builders - unless this was a custom order (which the seam in the rear brake bridge seems to put into the realm of "unlikely")
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02-02-16, 09:38 PM
#20
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02-03-16, 07:12 AM
#21
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Based on the BB threading it is almost certainly Italian or Mexican. Campagnolo dropouts in conjunction with a 27.2mm seat post is generally indicative of Columbus SL but the non-Columbus steerer tube indicates tre-tubi SL or possibly Falck. Long dropouts with eyelets and lack of fittings except for derailleur cable guides suggest no later than mid-1970s. I believe the first character in the serial number is an alpha character, as opposed to a numeral. If so, the serial number length would eliminate the really large Italian manufacturers. Square cut stay and fork ends are indicative of some Benotto and the gold repaint may be an attempt to reproduce the trademark Benotto nickel beige with a stock colour. The lnnnn serial number format has also been used by Benotto. Pending further information, a Benotto is my best candidate.
03-02-16, 12:50 AM
#22
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Based on the BB threading it is almost certainly Italian or Mexican. Campagnolo dropouts in conjunction with a 27.2mm seat post is generally indicative of Columbus SL but the non-Columbus steerer tube indicates tre-tubi SL or possibly Falck. Long dropouts with eyelets and lack of fittings except for derailleur cable guides suggest no later than mid-1970s. I believe the first character in the serial number is an alpha character, as opposed to a numeral. If so, the serial number length would eliminate the really large Italian manufacturers. Square cut stay and fork ends are indicative of some Benotto and the gold repaint may be an attempt to reproduce the trademark Benotto nickel beige with a stock colour. The lnnnn serial number format has also been used by Benotto. Pending further information, a Benotto is my best candidate.
also Benotto seemed to put a heart in the BB shell...
Here is a picture that maks the Serial number much clearer:
03-02-16, 02:24 PM
#23
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03-03-16, 04:04 AM
#24
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OK, what are the clues?
Italian 36mm BB - Italian or Mexican but a few Belgian bikes came with them too.
27.2mm seatpost - maybe Columbus SL tubing?
Bottom of steerer - Is it fluted inside?
Seamed brake bridge - Production model from a larger maker who saved a Lira or two over a piece of tubing!
Thinned lugs - better quality build
Seat stay top plugs - better quality build
Fender eyelets - not a full racer
In message #21 @T-Mar pretty much nails down a lot of these questions...
verktyg
Chas.
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03-03-16, 04:46 AM
#25
Senior Member
It's most surely a "Bastardo" from the mid to late 70's....
OK, what are the clues?
Italian 36mm BB - Italian or Mexican but a few Belgian bikes came with them too.
27.2mm seatpost - maybe Columbus SL tubing?
Bottom of steerer - Is it fluted inside?
Seamed brake bridge - Production model from a larger maker who saved a Lira or two over a piece of tubing!
Thinned lugs - better quality build
Seat stay top plugs - better quality build
Fender eyelets - not a full racer
In message #21 @T-Mar pretty much nails down a lot of these questions...
verktyg
Chas.
OK, what are the clues?
Italian 36mm BB - Italian or Mexican but a few Belgian bikes came with them too.
27.2mm seatpost - maybe Columbus SL tubing?
Bottom of steerer - Is it fluted inside?
Seamed brake bridge - Production model from a larger maker who saved a Lira or two over a piece of tubing!
Thinned lugs - better quality build
Seat stay top plugs - better quality build
Fender eyelets - not a full racer
In message #21 @T-Mar pretty much nails down a lot of these questions...
verktyg
Chas.