icepick_trotsky 

I know we all like low gears, but this seems a bit absurd!



Is SRAM set to launch X01 Eagle 12-speed groupset for 2017? | Two Wheels Better

Spoonrobot 

With the front chainring between 30-38 teeth that gives a low gear of 15-20 inches?

Guess it's about like an MTB triple at 22x34 but it seems a pretty crazy way to ditch the front derailleur. I think the shimano synchronized shifting is a cooler idea but MTB is moving into interesting areas even if they seem a little absurd to some of us.

Cynikal 

Is it not redundant to complain about new tech in the CV threads?

RobbieTunes

I want to see the RD. My 1x10 was pretty cool, 44t front, 11-34 rear.
It took some getting used to.

This looks like a gravel bike that can climb. Wonder what the max front teeth can be?
I see the RD doesn't look all that long, but has larger pulleys to accommodate all that chain.

Looks like a compact backwards.

jetboy 

I would totally use that. and on a vintage bike to boot.

Wildwood 

mtb stuff

Sir_Name 

I haven't ridden a 1x setup, but they're interesting in certain conditions. Especially if rear suspension is in play (^mtb stuff).

My gravel/all road/whatever you want to call it bike has a large 6sp freewheel and triple up front. It's nice being able to get between large jumps in gearing without having to switch across a large number of gears in back. Maybe easier/quicker than having to jump through a handful or two worth of clicks at the rear, though that can be planned for and adapted to.

rando_couche

Sheesh - anything to get rid of a chainring. Looks to me like another of those "improvements" that only benefit manufacturers: no front derailleur, fewer components to buy, less labor to build the bike. And will they cost less? Yeah, right...

SP
OC, OR

Wilfred Laurier

At the same ratios and power inputs, larger cogs and chainrings will put less strain and wear on the chain. I don't know if it is a noticeable or measurable difference, though.

OldsCOOL

Walking is faster.

Wilfred Laurier

Why is this in the C&V subforum? Will Sram be making friction shifters for the new group?

noglider 

What made it hard to get used to? To me, it seems like a great idea.

stardognine

Especially for a C&V touring bike. Sign me up, I'll beta test it for yas.

SJX426 

I have often wondered about this too but which other forum has the knowledge with experience and good judgment along with tolerance and great attitudes toward others all in one forum?

Wilfred Laurier

Clydesdale/Athena forum?

Chrome Molly

At some point isn't multiple chain ring sized rear cogs more expensive and less durable than a couple easily replaced chain rings? I can't even envision needing a 50t cog on my fat bike in deep snow. My skinnier tire bikes would not go well into the places where 50t cogs are needed (and FD's work fine outside of those places) so I don't understand

cyclotoine

well in the case of the new shimano XT, yes. It is a bit cheaper, less to replace. Simple. I like it alot. I was riding a 1x10 expander for the last couple summers and got a sram x1 1x11 last fall (amazing!). and I have a 1x10 mod on my fat bike (also wicked). 50T is no incremental jump. I have heard 44 and 45 with 42 being common place but 10-50 just blows that away. You can run a 34 and have a massive MTB gear range, but at some point the derailleur must get too close to the ground!?

cyclotoine

To be honest there are times when I could use a bit more low end on my fat bike (I love in a mountainous region). It would be nice to have say a 45T in the back and be able to bump up the front from 28T to 30T. I think for a lot of people with fat bikes, a 26t with 10 or 11-42 would be the sweet spot but 26t means direct mount (often not an option) or granny (not the best chainline if doing a conversion, but tolerable. So have this would allow another group or people to go 1x. Personally I am happy with 28Tx42 for sport applications but I wouldn't want to adventure tour with that, I'd like something a little lower so there is certainly a market for more low end with 1x. That said I'd rather go with an internal hub for adventure touring but the derailleur drivetrains are so much cheaper...

Chrome Molly

Agree with your comments. The range of the new 11 speed xt seems like my sweet spot but if I ran 3.5 inch tires instead of 4.8's then the 50-10 range "might" make sense for an all season go anywhere fat bike that I could power up to 15mph with a 30t ring on the front. In my case the motor isn't there but for some it may be right. Also I suppose if you run 3 inch tires on a 29r wheel and live where steep traction isn't an issue it may make even more sense.

John E

What derailleur can handle a 50T cog and a 40T wrap?

jetboy 

Now I do not live in serious mountains (though some of san francisco's "streets" count at 31.5%!!) but do not see any reason to complain about 50t at the rear on a single even not on a mtb. makes for a simpler system that will get you where you want to go. sounds good.

fender1

There is always something to complain about (new tech/carbon fiber/Rivendell/ebay/ the post office/the price of shipping/ your lbs not have a stash of NOS 40 years old parts for next to nothing/somebody not shipping the BOC/tires too skinny/tires too fat/tires too expensive) to name a few. With the exception of sharing knowledge freely, complaining is what gets done best in C&V.......

Homebrew01

April Fools day ??

dddd

I appreciate the ability to mitigate extremes of chainline angle using multiple chainrings, BUT there are a couple of subtleties of these 1x drivetrains, and a few advantages, which make things VERRRY interesting in a technical sense that looks toward the future.

Firstly is the X-Horizon or non-slanted derailer parallelogram of all unexpected things. Warning, long sentence here: This takes the vertical motion out of the parallelogram, and is allowed by using a very heavy offset to the cage's top pully mounting position, which handles all of the chain-gap motion without making the derailer susceptible to moving inward in response to bumps in the road, and does so using only the lightest imaginable return spring, for lighter shifting feel and less friction in the cabling.
Use of this non-slanted parallelogram with fixed mounting pivot (B-pivot) does not allow for multiple chainrings!

Secondly with the single-chainring approach is the guarantee that as the larger cogs are selected, the chain angles away from the larger cog's teeth at both the "top" and "bottom" of the sprocket, as the cage's lower pulley is positioned a bit "outward" from parallel to the plane of the rear wheel. Result here is that now they can use dished cogs with narrower spacing and still allow clearance for the same old chain width! So expect this 12s cassette to fit on the contemporary 11s XO-type "driver" (freehub body). This is a really big deal, since further extremes of chainline angling are avoided(!!).

Functionally, 1X drivetrains are simpler to operate in extremes of terrain and during extremes of rider effort, such as racing.
Stoners too will no longer have to struggle to remember what chainring that they last shifted to.

The 1X bike is indeed a simpler machine, and potentially lighter, more reliable, and less expensive, not to mention having a cleaner look.

Another good feature of this 1X12 system is that it is still adaptable to just about any old bike, with the dropout spacing only needing to be adjusted to the current standards that all of better componentry has been designed for over the last 25+ years. The trend toward disc brakes may make for less availability of built wheels for our old bikes, but rim-brake wheels can still be built as always.
Note also that cage-to-ground clearance issues when designing around such large cogs are mitigated somewhat by today's larger 650b wheel size and by the derailer cage's no longer having to be so long as to take up slack from multiple chainrings, all of which adds up in this new system's favor.

I don't have any idea what the patenting situation is with all of this stuff, and to what extent this might limit Shimano's ability to exploit these technologies such as the X-Horizon derailer and the variable dished-cog spacing, but so far Shimano has at least come out with a good 1X chainring of their own design to best retain the chain without any sort of chain guide in front.

Andy_K 

Can I use it with a triple crankset? The 30-50 small gear is nice, but sometimes I just need a 53-10 for sprinting.