rhm

Hah! Yes, that is exactly the point (though I'll usually just replace the brake pads; KoolStop FTW!). Likewise, you can run a 1960 Campy Gran Sport derailleurs with a Shimano chain and IRD and it'll shift much better than a period correct one.

gugie 

+1

A good litmus test is this: if I saw this bike in my younger days and wanted it, but couldn't afford it, it's C&V.

YMMV

SJX426 

Classic for me implies a timeliness of aesthetics, that is an appearance of a period of time that is representative of the best of that period. That is why it is so subjective. For me, it is not about rarity, but is about something special that may have been common or not but is recognized later as having special desirable attributes. Good example are Campy parts of the NR era as well as earlier parts. They were innovative in some special way that at the time led the rest of the market or contributed to the progress. Many are vintage as well. Simplex falls into that category for me as well as Suntour.

Vintage is purely a time thing for me. It is hard to say anything from my youth is vintage, but I will except it. I will not accept that I am vintage but will accept that I am classic, or becoming classic.

rando_couche

IMO,
Vintage > 25 years old
Classic = "a work of enduring excellence", age not relevant

For instance:
My Eddy Merckx Team SC is only 12 years old, but it’s a classic and represents the end of an era (the last generation of Merckxes made in Belguim)
A 25+ year old Huffy is not and never will be a classic even though it’s from the vintage time frame. It’s just an old POS.
SP
OC, OR

crank_addict

There's some brand new and so called keeper of the flame (KOF) that I consider instant classic.

Vintage could also be early carbon fiber or aluminum frame types. Though some follow a more hard line defined on the CR list. Thats fine too.

BTW: I'm not in full agreement with the comment above about Huffy. There were some pretty nice English made roadsters and please don't pass the trash pile if you see a Serotta made team bike in there. It would be like me saying the same about some of those Merckx made for the masses and sold in dime stores. Yet the brand also offered higher end.

Which brings us back full circle to the time when the US Cycling team were riding labeled Murray's, Schwinn's and yes, even Merckx bikes.
Carry on~

Salamandrine 

I'm inclined to say the cutoff date is 1983 because that is the year that Tullio Campagnolo died. Or maybe 1984, when Look pedals came out.

In reality, it is relative of course. Perhaps a better date would be the early 90s, when STI levers, threadless stems, and early splined BB's came out. This was also the time when carbon frames began to take over. That was the last major change. Since then, it has been more of an evolution than anything.

himespau 

Part of my own arbitrary rules are things that is that unicrown forks are not found on classics but I would welcome pictorial evidence to show me wrong. As it is, this thread is in dire need of some pictures.

Andy_K 

This is an interesting example. I think most car lovers would agree that while the '69 Corvette was objectively a better car than the '69 Camaro and both are classic, the '69 Camaro is more classic because of what they represent in their respective lines. The '69 Corvette is great, but the '69 Camaro is the classic Camaro. Pursuing the opposite end of this train of thought, I've been quite dismayed to see mid-70's Dodge Darts and the like showing up at car shows. I've been even more dismayed to find myself really liking some of them.


It's interesting to see how much distinction everyone is making between classic and vintage. I hadn't really given that much thought. I suppose that none of my bikes (with the possible exception of my 2008 Kona Major Jake) are actually classic in this sense, even apart from what I've done to them. The average person on the street would look at my Pinarello and think "red bike". If they knew a little about bikes they might think "old red bike". A person who is fairly into bikes might think "cool old Pinarello". But a person who really knows vintage bikes would likely recognize that it's not a particularly special Pinarello. I kind of like this because I feel absolutely no obligation to maintain their pedigree with the "right" components and so on.

I'm more liberal with the term classic. To me, just about anything that's vintage and also nice gets the classic label. For instance, I would accept just about any bike built with Reynolds 531 or Columbus SL tubing as classic.

nashvillebill

According to Craigslist or Ebay ads, anything more than a year old is "vintage". Bonus points if it's rusty or damaged or missing stuff.

The 1983 date mentioned earlier seems too far back, though. I had a '79 Univega Viva Sport. Put that bike next to my '85 Nishiki Riviera GT or '87 Nishiki Prestige, and stylistically they all look the same, like all the other mass-produced bikes of the 80's. (Yes I know components, frames, etc are different, just stylistically speaking). So I agree with the "around 1990" sentiment.

cs1

I would agree 100%. There are custom bikes being made today exactly like they were in the seventies. I would consider that to be classic but not vintage obviously. It is hard to put an age on a classic.

clubman 

On the verge.

eastbay71

Very much agree with this. Most of my bikes were originally sold while I was in high school but were far beyond my means at the time.

I agree with this too but would add that some early carbon fiber tubed bikes with aluminum lugs fit this description as well. CF bikes started showing up in the mid 80's.

jjames1452 

1990 is my mental cut off.

StanSeven

This sounds like the best explanation yet.

I can relate the difference better with cars. A 1962 two door Chevy 409 couple is a classic. A 1962 four door six cyclinder sedan is vintage.

79pmooney

Just for the fun of it, I have a bike that is what could well have been raced in the late '80s had gears never happened and fix gear still ruled. (Not quite - I ride clinchers but this bike would shine on sewups.) Ti, steel fork, track worthy drive train (1/8" Sugino 75 in a road length 175), brakes of course. Dropout is road friendly horizontal opening down at the front for fast wheel flips. (I haven't gone quick-release or wingnuts. The racing is hard to find so I just settle for the slow and secure peanut butter wrench or better, the Pedros Trixie.)

She was conceived and built in '11 but she rides and feels like the classic that never happened. (And yes, she's a she. Jessica. Sweet if I'm gentle, wild if I'm not.)

Ben

Kactus

This pretty much goes along with my definition. I would define the Merckx as a classic but it's not vintage. And I would define the 25 y.o. Huffy as vintage but definitely not classic.

A classic AND vintage bike would need to be a frame of quality or innovative construction, or of some historical significance, as well as pre 1990 IMO.

iab

Anything after 1936 is no longer classic. Derailleurs are overrated.

Vintage is pre-safety bike.

cb400bill

To quote my favorite gearhead author, Peter Egan, a classic is "Something that never gets old, even when it is."

ChicagoSteel

I kind of like '94, the last year a steel frame won the TDF. The frame is the bike, to me, I guess - everything else is "upgradeable," like software, in a way.

mountaindave 

This defines the large part of my purchasing motivations.

mountaindave 

In the serious side, this is a pretty good working definition.

Bad Lag

Vintage - an older bike

Classic - a bike of any age that is styled and built like an older, vintage bike.

For me, if it's steel and has a horizontal top tube, it's at least "classic". If it was built in the 1970's or earlier, for me, personally, it also qualifies as vintage.

For me, there are few graphite or aluminum or titanium frames, very few, that qualify as classic. Exxon (?) graphite, ALAN (aluminum), Teledyne Titan (titanium). Early Klein and Cannondale frames fit in as vintage because they were just so uber-cool.

mountaindave 

To use a previously posted qualifier, none of those were built in foreign, cheap-labor factories as "disposable" bikes. They were all hand made to be beautiful and to last a lifetime. Klein paint jobs are something to behold.

atriot

Classic is stylistic characterization whereas vintage is associated with a particular time period.