Fitzboy

Howdy,
Just got into riding about a year ago to cross train with running (just shy of my 50th bday) and was told to buy good vintage bike vs. trying to buy low end new. I got a great deal on an 87 Centurion Iron Man Master ($250) and love it. It only has 10 speeds though and some of the hills around Lake Geneva, WI really push me to the max. ;-)
I am getting the bug to check out another vintage and have come across an 86 Miyata 912 12 speed w/ Shimano 600 package (asking $300) and a 2003 LeMond Tourmalet 27 speed w/brifters and Tiagra/105 set. (asking $400) I was warned to stay away from Aluminum at my age (kidney busters) and was wondering about any input about which of these steel bikes (or any other suggestions) might be a nice addition. Folks have told me that LeMond geometry is good for short legged/long torso guys like me? I ride a 53cm/54cm.

Thanks for any input.

Fitz

jyl

I'd get the LeMond for sure. Brifters, lighter, better geometry for you.

You could simply change the freewheel (to larger) and the chainrings (to smaller) on the Centurion, but then you would only own 1 bike. And everyone knows that owning 2 bikes is better than owning 1.

Seriously, get the LeMond.

ptempel

It sounds like you couldn't go wrong with either of them. Try a test ride and see which you like better. No experience with Miyata but I really miss my old Lemond Malliot Jaune. The Tourmalet sounds like a nice deal and seems to also have Reynolds 853 with a CF fork:

2003 LeMond Tourmalet - BikePedia

romperrr 

Fitz!

I'm jealous of your local prices. Haha. Since parts are mostly interchangable, I'd go with the frame that fits you better. I ride both Miyata and Lemond, I like them both. Note that Lemonds generally have longer top tubes for their size, so consider that when fitting the bikes. I just noticed the comment about your leg:torso ratio, so maybe the Lemond is the way to go. However, if the Centourian fits you well already, slapping a triple crank and wide ratio gear range isn't too difficult. Both would be suited for cross training. Whatever direction you go, using a triple crank or a wide ratio or both would help conquer those hills. Since the Lemond already has that, for you, I'd lean towards that, given that you're just getting into cycling. For me, I'd probably go with the Miyata because I have a greater emotional attachment to them and am comfortable working on bikes and have some tools, so adding a triple crank would be short work.

The choice is yours, you can't go wrong. Tell us how you land.

crank_addict

Welcome Fitzboy!
I frequently ride that area and know the road conditions. It is a bit harsh riding aluminum even with a carbon fork. Though, you might like it for some climbs.

Suggest steel and re-configuring gearing. To me and for the region, triples are not needed.

Also, congrats on the X training. I envy you and admit I'm a disgrace. Really wanted to play in the novice events this year but timing of things just keeps interfering. I've focused far too much on cycling these days and have lost my running.

There's that tricky balance of cycling and running. This C&V may or may not be the section to discuss but being a runner, should consider a re-arrangement of bike geometry and more saddle forward. Plus examine your style and approach to climbs. Also paging @RobbieTunes

Lastly, your territory has a great following of C&V enthusiast. Suggest to email and network up for the group rides / events.

echo victor 

Between the Miyata and the Lemond, I'd probably prefer the Miyata if it were me... but I'd recommend the Lemond in your case (assuming it fits). I just think that the 12 speed 1986 Miyata and 10 speed 1986 Centurion are going to be more similar to each other than different. And since this is only bike #2 , I think the Lemond will offer you a more interesting contrast with your Centurion.

That said, make sure the fit is right first. And maybe see if the seller is willing to negotiate on price - I'm not sure how well Bicycle Blue Book reflects reality in any given market, but it suggests that $400 might be a bit much.

And as @jyl and @romperrr mentioned, you could try lowering the gearing a bit on your Centurion or just going to a wider range cassette without too much difficulty. The number of available gears is less important for those hills than the overall range of available gears.

Kobe 

The Lemond is a very nice bike and sounds like it would fit your body type best. If you have hills, you will really like the 27 speeds.

Lazyass

I would normally choose the older bike, but I had a '97 LeMond Zurich with an 853 frame and it was a sweet ride.

Andy_K 

Another vote for the LeMond. My 2001 LeMond Buenos Aires with 5700-series 105 triple drivetrain is my favorite bike.

Ride-Fly

I know this is a C&V forum, but since you have a Centurion 10 spd, I don't see why you should get another older bike for your second, unless you already know you want to start collecting C&V bikes. In your case, I'd look for a newer, sportier bike. You can probably find a lightly used carbon or aluminum for sportier days in the saddle for not much more than your two candidates.

Btw, only the really old or very entry level new aluminum frames are going to beat you up. Any new Cannondale, Giant, etc are going to ride very nicely. I have a 2001 Klein Quantum Race, a 2003 Fondriest Carb Level (al w/ carbon seat stays) and a Colnago Mix (al w/ carb ss) and they are all very smooth. The Fondriest especially is as smooth as my carbons.

I say this, as I'm paring down my road race machines and wanting to expand my range of bikes- don't have a rando, and SS/fixie.

Pompiere

I am surprised that no one here suggested buying both, unless they are hoping to scoop up the remaining bike for themselves.

I agree, the Miyata would bee too similar to the Centurion, with a couple extra gears in the mid range but no lower gears for hills. It would be a simple matter to swap the freewheel on the Centurion to have a lower gear, but the Lemond would have a much wider range than either of the other bikes. This is assuming the bike fits properly. Try to get a ride on it first and then decide.

Mainah

This claim is often made with Lemond frames, and frankly it doesn't make much sense to me. It's true that Lemond frames tend to have slightly longer top tubes compared to comparably sized road frames from other brands. This longer top tube results from the fact that Lemond frames tend to have slightly more slack seat tube angles and a slightly steeper head tube angles than your average frame, which together tend to "stretch out" the top tube. For example, my 57.5 Lemond Croix de Fer has a STA of 72.5 deg and a HTA of 73.5 deg. By comparison, a Specialized Allez has a STA of 73.5 deg. and a HTA of 73 deg. How will the additional 1 degree of STA effect bike fit? It won't. Move your seat forward to position yourself over the cranks as desired. Run out of seat rail? Get a zero-setback seatpost. With your butt in the right position, all you're left with is a 1/2 degree difference in head tube angle, which is a negligible difference for the purposes of bike fit for most earthlings. The consequences of lemond geometry are much more significant to bike handling than they are to bike fit - and even that is relatively minor in my opinion. I think the short legged/long torso idea persists in large part because Lemond himself had those body proportions. But that doesn't mean his bikes will only fit folks with similar body plans.

Suffice it to say, get the Lemond. They are great bikes, and wildly undervalued on the used marketplace IMHO. Where else can you find an 853 or True Temper OSX frame, often times made in the USA, for a few hundred bucks these days?

davester

The LeMond sounds great, though like others here I wonder why you don't just change out the freewheel. What do you have on there now.

Fitzboy

Thank you all for your input. I will probably take most of your advice and change the configuration of gears on my Centurion eventually, but many of you were also right in that I wanted a NEW BIKE
I went and took the Tourmalet out for a test ride tonight and it was sweet. The owner had used it for training and competing in 4 triathlons during her first two years and it had just been hanging in the garage for the last 11 yrs. It was a 51 cm frame (my Centurion is a 53) but it fit perfectly. Took it through the neighborhoods with a big smile on my face as I played through ALL THE NEW GEARS! Owner was very cool and brought price down from $400 to $300 that dealer had offered her for a trade. I upped it back up to $325 to give her a little profit over the dealer and because she held it for me while she had also received 6 other interested parties. (I believe in Karma ) Thanks again for everyone's help and here are some pictures of my new ride.

jetboy 

nice choice! great price on a great bike- I have not tried 853 but I can't imagine it less than great.

I actually use my centurion ironman as my hill-climbing bike - but it does take some changing of the gears and expense there-in. Its almost always cheaper to just buy a bike that has the gearing you need, but IRONMAN. so sometimes the money is well spent.

Pompiere

Congratulations on the "new" bike. That was a great deal, especially with the price drop to put it on par with the Miyata.

qcpmsame 

You made some good choices with those two bikes. There is a "cult" for the Ironman bicycles around here so they get a fair amount of screen time, rightly so, IMHO. I can foresee a movement by you, towards cycling. Its addictive you know.....

Bill

seypat

It doesn't take much to add gears to your vintage steed. A triple crank and different BB Spindle will do it. You might need to change the FD as well. Here is my Ironman and the wife's Team Miyata sporting 21 and 27 gears respectively. They both had long cage RDs for these pictures because of a tough climbing event that we were doing. I'm a terrible climber. If you look closely at the Ironman, the crank is a 50/36 compact with a 28 granny. I generally run a 52/40/30 on it, but I needed a concentration of lower gears for that ride.

Mainah

Score! You're gonna love it.

seypat

I think your 86 Ironman might have 126 rear spacing and a 6 speed Uniglide freehub. You can change the freehub body to a 7 speed Hyperglide body. The change is cheap and easy to do.

bikemig 

This is a sweet bike. The triple will come in handy if you decide to do this ride,

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...august-64.html

seypat

I agree. I don't understand the stigma associated with a triple. It lets you run any combo in the back that you want. A triple is the first thing which goes onto any bike coming into my stable.

bikemig 

I agree. Triples make a bike more versatile. I like compact cranks as well but 16 teeth is a big jump; I like the gearing better with a 10 tooth jump between chain rings. The compact does make the shifting sequence easier but I don't think that's a big deal.

ptempel

Top tupe is slightly longer. I had a 57cm lemond but could have gotten away with a 55cm since the top tube for that is still 56cm or a little more if I recall. That's about the only difference.

seypat

I made one up for SOTR in May that was 50/36/28 compact.....triple. I had a 13-30 on back. That ride is basically climbing or coasting for me. Lots of climbing and not much need for high gears. It worked out well.