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TdF - Chris Froome Welterweight Boxer

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TdF - Chris Froome Welterweight Boxer

Old 07-10-16, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
I understand that and agree 100%



No.
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Old 07-10-16, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
What I don't understand is why a World Class Cyclist on a $15,000.00 bike can't outrun an overweight person on foot.
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Old 07-11-16, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
What I don't understand is why a World Class Cyclist on a $15,000.00 bike can't outrun an overweight person on foot.
Well, they were climbing and Froome was riding as part of a pack. There was nowhere for him to go.

Before you further critique Froome for his actions, consider the following:

Yates injured as 1km-to-go gantry falls at the Tour de France | CyclingTips

This has been a problem for a long time at the Tour. Some of the fans act like complete a-holes, stealing things from riders that they can take home as souvenirs.

Some bring large dogs to the event, with inevitable results.


Some get slammed as they try to take selfies.


Some just get too cute with cameras in general.

Tour de France spectator causes cyclists to crash - Telegraph

Think of this from the standpoint of the riders. They've busted their behinds for months to get ready for the Tour and everything they've worked for can be undone in a fraction of a second by some attention seeking idiot or some irresponsible dog owner. So, yes, the riders push back. Why wouldn't they?
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Old 07-11-16, 05:21 AM
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Based on the size of Froome's arms the guy is probably unaware what all the fuss is about.
On yesterday's stage a fan dressed like a Blue Man (but green) stepped right in front of Costa and Maika on either the last or second to last climb. Maika had to alter his line just a tad. Froome should have been there to hand out some justice.

Last edited by Pemetic2006; 07-11-16 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 07-11-16, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
What I don't understand is why a World Class Cyclist on a $15,000.00 bike can't outrun an overweight person on foot.
It is not a question of outrunning the spectators that are out on the course, its running into one that steps into your path at the last moment, or as in Froome's case, the spectator was getting much too close to the bars. There have been many racers go down hard due to a spectator grabbing or bumping their handle bars, or simply knocking them off the bike by running into the course and into the bike(s.) Several have intentionally grabbed the bars or other parts of the bike, or even the rider, causing a crash. And, all of these can cause a multi bike pile up.

The racer's bike handling skills, not the cost of their bike isn't part of the equation, if this is how you see things, I won't waste your, or my time, trying to tell you anything more. I don't want the riders hitting anyone, but if the spectators keep interfering with the races, and putting riders in danger, I cannot blame them for taking action as Froome did in this episode. I do feel that the UCI was wrong in issuing a fine to Froome for protecting himself. I hope that either Sky, or the other riders took up the money for the fine, as a token protest about the handling of this by the UCI.

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Old 07-11-16, 05:37 AM
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A broken collar bone.
A broken hip.
A broken wrist.
A lost race.

..A career ending injury?

To hell with the so-called "spectators" who seem to think they and their 5 seconds of notoriety on TV are the story,
and not the riders.

Last edited by rootboy; 07-11-16 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 07-11-16, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by iab
So now you are blaming the riders for not avoiding some ****** bag who endangers them?
No, I never blamed the racer for the fan's actions.

And again, how do you stop a running person without violence if words don't work?
IMO there is no reason to stop the fan. He was running next to the group. He wasn't close to them, he wasn't impeding them, he wasn't crowding them, and he wasn't touching them.
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Old 07-11-16, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
IMO there is no reason to stop the fan. He was running next to the group. He wasn't close to them, he wasn't impeding them, he wasn't crowding them, and he wasn't touching them.
Actually that's not true. The reason Froome was so angry is because the guy was carrying a giant flag that getting blown into his wheel and bars. Good enough reason for me for Froomey to take some action before he gets taken down and takes out the guys behind him too.

edit: I just saw that was already said, but apparently it needed to be said again.
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Old 07-11-16, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
No, I never blamed the racer for the fan's actions.



IMO there is no reason to stop the fan. He was running next to the group. He wasn't close to them, he wasn't impeding them, he wasn't crowding them, and he wasn't touching them.
Listen again man, real close. THE GUY'S FLAG WAS ABOUT TO GO INTO HIS FRONT WHEEL
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Old 07-11-16, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
No, I never blamed the racer for the fan's actions.



IMO there is no reason to stop the fan. He was running next to the group. He wasn't close to them, he wasn't impeding them, he wasn't crowding them, and he wasn't touching them.
Ok I agree, but what if he is? Can you finally agree it's ok to "push" a spectator?
I'm not a fan of unwarranted violence, but I totally believe in the right to defend myself. Well, I also don't care for bullys and address those situations accordingly.
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Old 07-11-16, 08:44 AM
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If that had happened in the US the ambulance chasers would be hiring private detectives to find that guy so they could convince him to sue Chris Froome and Team Sky for assault. Sad but true.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
Then there wouldn't be any spectators left. Can't believe they fined Froome for it.
They fined him because right or wrong, at the end of the day you can't have pro athletes battering fans, and you can't have race organizers looking like they condone the activity. If TdF the organization truly cared about his actions, he'd have been looking at a more substantial punishment than a 200 Franc ($203) fine.

Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
They're just bicycles! The same idiots used to stand in front of Spec B cars
Yep. When I started spectating American rallies, you could still sit wherever along the course you wanted, the expectation was when the 000 (maybe singel zero, can't remember which is the slow first car) came through at its scouting pace, you were smart enough to know that the course was open and to remain off the road. Sadly, that didn't last long from the beginning of my viewing days, and now the rules have spectators contained in a few viewing areas behind fences with marshals watching them, and technically a rule that if a spectator is seen outside the predefined viewing areas, the stage can be cancelled in the name of safety. Not practical with the distances involved with bike racing I suspect, though.

Originally Posted by FullGas
imagine some drunk slob stumbling onto the field during a high-stakes NFL game and causing a TE to have to alter his course for a pass reception...

what kind of treatment do you think the 'spectator' would get from the player...?
I dunno about the NFL, but I do know that soccer players have been red-carded for tackling pitch invaders.

Last edited by jefnvk; 07-11-16 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kunsunoke

Think of this from the standpoint of the riders. They've busted their behinds for months to get ready for the Tour and everything they've worked for can be undone in a fraction of a second by some attention seeking idiot or some irresponsible dog owner. So, yes, the riders push back. Why wouldn't they?
Let me be more clear.

I'm OK with a racer pushing a fan who endangers or assaults a racer. The gloves come off. Fair play. If a fan grabs or pushes a racer, I'm OK with the racer beating the hell out of the fan. I've seen racers aggressively and violently SMACK cameras out of fan's hands because the fans had positioned the cameras where they were dangerous. I'm OK with that because the racer needed to do that to protect himself.

This particular fan's behavior doesn't warrant physical violence. He was just an innocent and enthusiastic fan. He wasn't out to disrupt or impede or injure.

Watch the video again. Watch the footage from behind. The fan does not run out into Froome's line. The fan is already running on the side of the road and as Froome catches/passes the guy, Froome blind sides the fan. I'ts a cheap and dirty shot that the fan never saw coming. Yes, Froome's hand was open, but it was a strike, not a push. A real slimeball tantrum move.

Should the fan be on the road? Meh, probably not. Was that fan impeding or endangering Froome? Not even close. Froome is directly behind another racer who is clearing the path ahead. The comments about the fan's flag and Froomes front wheel are ridiculous. The fan and his flag are well to the side of the road as the pack is going past him.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame

The racer's bike handling skills, not the cost of their bike isn't part of the equation,
Bill

My comment was sarcasm. I should have used a emoticon.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota
Actually that's not true. The reason Froome was so angry is because the guy was carrying a giant flag that getting blown into his wheel and bars. Good enough reason for me for Froomey to take some action before he gets taken down and takes out the guys behind him too.

edit: I just saw that was already said, but apparently it needed to be said again.
Originally Posted by Lazyass
Listen again man, real close. THE GUY'S FLAG WAS ABOUT TO GO INTO HIS FRONT WHEEL

Giant flag**********? Guys, come on, watch the video again.

Dangerous fans should be dealt with. IMO this guy was not messing with the racers.

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Old 07-11-16, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
They fined him because right or wrong, at the end of the day you can't have pro athletes battering fans, and you can't have race organizers looking like they condone the activity. If TdF the organization truly cared about his actions, he'd have been looking at a more substantial punishment than a 200 Franc ($203) fine.
Sure it was a token fine strictly for face saving purposes. And I will wager Froome did not pay the fine. Would not surprise me if his fellow riders took up a collection to pay it. More likely his team paid it. Does not change the fact the fan endangered the riders and their future livelihoods. If the organizers are going to play that game, they need to do a better job of crowd control to justify levying the fine. The organizers are equally at fault for allowing the situation to exist.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:30 AM
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I hope the other riders pitch in and help him pay the fine, not that he needs the money, just as a show of support for him. I hope if they do, the media covers that story and plays it up big time....I hope they also got a big close up of the fans face and his name and play up how stupid what he was doing actually is...
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Old 07-11-16, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
They fined him because right or wrong, at the end of the day you can't have pro athletes battering fans, and you can't have race organizers looking like they condone the activity. If TdF the organization truly cared about his actions, he'd have been looking at a more substantial punishment than a 200 Franc ($203) fine.



Yep. When I started spectating American rallies, you could still sit wherever along the course you wanted, the expectation was when the 000 (maybe singel zero, can't remember which is the slow first car) came through at its scouting pace, you were smart enough to know that the course was open and to remain off the road. Sadly, that didn't last long from the beginning of my viewing days, and now the rules have spectators contained in a few viewing areas behind fences with marshals watching them, and technically a rule that if a spectator is seen outside the predefined viewing areas, the stage can be cancelled in the name of safety. Not practical with the distances involved with bike racing I suspect, though.



I dunno about the NFL, but I do know that soccer players have been red-carded for tackling pitch invaders.
I can't remember the specifics (team or game) but NFL players have, in the past, tackled and/or clothes lined fans who ran onto the field. I remember one particularly vicious LB taking a guy's head off, but I can't remember which.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
Sure it was a token fine strictly for face saving purposes. And I will wager Froome did not pay the fine. Would not surprise me if his fellow riders took up a collection to pay it. More likely his team paid it. Does not change the fact the fan endangered the riders and their future livelihoods. If the organizers are going to play that game, they need to do a better job of crowd control to justify levying the fine. The organizers are equally at fault for allowing the situation to exist.
Agree on all point. You do have a situation where any idiot can cause a lot of damage at a moment's notice. I don't really know how you fix that, though. Even in this case, you don't have consensus on whether the runner was causing an actual danger or not from observers, I wouldn't envy being on a board which had to determine which cases were legitimate cases of self defense and which were not, much easier to just hand out blanket token punishments with a generic "no beating fans" policy.

If I were a fellow rider, I'd have chipped in a franc or two to pay his fine, though. Not going to lie, if I knew the extent of my punishment was a $200 fee, there have been a few people in life I probably would have decked

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I can't remember the specifics (team or game) but NFL players have, in the past, tackled and/or clothes lined fans who ran onto the field. I remember one particularly vicious LB taking a guy's head off, but I can't remember which.
Oh, I'm sure there are many cases where they have gotten away with it, just pointing out there is also precedence in other sports for punishments for taking out inappropriate fans.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
Sure it was a token fine strictly for face saving purposes. And I will wager Froome did not pay the fine. Would not surprise me if his fellow riders took up a collection to pay it. More likely his team paid it. Does not change the fact the fan endangered the riders and their future livelihoods. If the organizers are going to play that game, they need to do a better job of crowd control to justify levying the fine. The organizers are equally at fault for allowing the situation to exist.
I don't know who is at fault for allowing this to continue, but it's certainly not Chris Fromme. The people doing this crap are giant ass wads, and they deserve blame (and rider assaults) for being giant ass wads...but someone should also be protecting the riders from this behavior. City? State? Race organizers? I have no idea what their contract calls for...but SOMEONE should be held accountable for rider security.

Whether that's barricades, arrests, PSAs - or a mix of those factors, no sports fan or competitor wants drunken spectators impacting race results and hurting the athletes. I don't know who is responsible for race security, and I don't know if this gets tacit approval as a way of engaging fans, but someone needs to protect the athletes, and it's offensive that they'd fine a competitor for protecting himself when, seemingly, no one else is interested in doing it.

I don't care how long it's happened before - it takes away from the sport and it imperils the athletes. "We've allowed stupid crap for a long time" isn't a justification for allowing it to continue.

Say what you want about our legal system, but it certainly encourages risk analysis and you'd be very unlikely to see this regularly in a US sporting event. Risk of damages and law suits can be a very good thing

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Old 07-11-16, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Giant flag**********? Guys, come on, watch the video again.

Dangerous fans should be dealt with. IMO this guy was not messing with the racers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwz5sqantOU
Plenty dang big enough to get into a wheel.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Giant flag**********? Guys, come on, watch the video again.
You need to watch it again. He was running with his arms spread apart, flag in his hands, with his arm extended further than the distance he was to Froome. The flag was about to cover his front wheel. He deserved to get punched.
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Old 07-11-16, 09:59 AM
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I'm with Froome on this one. If you're running close enough to get punched in the face or neck, you're too close. The riders are close to their limits, Froome is boxed in between the other riders and the side of the road and the obnoxious fan. I don't have a problem with fans running alongside the riders, except maybe the ones that are just doing it to get on TV. It's exciting when the riders come through! I ran beside Jens Voigt on Alpe D'Huez a few years back but stayed about 10 feet away. You have to have some sense and let the guys do their job.

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Old 07-11-16, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Let me be more clear.

I'm OK with a racer pushing a fan who endangers or assaults a racer. The gloves come off. Fair play. If a fan grabs or pushes a racer, I'm OK with the racer beating the hell out of the fan. I've seen racers aggressively and violently SMACK cameras out of fan's hands because the fans had positioned the cameras where they were dangerous. I'm OK with that because the racer needed to do that to protect himself.

This particular fan's behavior doesn't warrant physical violence. He was just an innocent and enthusiastic fan. He wasn't out to disrupt or impede or injure.

Watch the video again. Watch the footage from behind. The fan does not run out into Froome's line. The fan is already running on the side of the road and as Froome catches/passes the guy, Froome blind sides the fan. I'ts a cheap and dirty shot that the fan never saw coming. Yes, Froome's hand was open, but it was a strike, not a push. A real slimeball tantrum move.

Should the fan be on the road? Meh, probably not. Was that fan impeding or endangering Froome? Not even close. Froome is directly behind another racer who is clearing the path ahead. The comments about the fan's flag and Froomes front wheel are ridiculous. The fan and his flag are well to the side of the road as the pack is going past him.

The guy's flag clearly gets nearly wrapped up in Froome's left handlebar. It could have taken Froome and a pile of other riders down. I don't believe in "violence" either but Froome smacking the guy isn't violent. The resulting crash from the flag getting caught in the wheels (had it) could have been however.

Last edited by Pemetic2006; 07-11-16 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 07-11-16, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
Was that fan impeding or endangering Froome? Not even close...
It was very close indeed. You need to watch the video shot from overhead, which can be seen in the clip shown here: Chris Froome fined after punching fan | NBC Sports

The truth is the spectator's flag was directly interfering with Froome's handlebars and in fact nearly took him down. IMHO his swift open-handed reaction was fully warranted.
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