jonwvara 

I've been away for a few days and so am late checking in. I agree that replacing the crankset is the cheapest way to go to a triple, assuming you don't care about keeping things original.


I would also note that as nice as the Phil bottom brackets are, they have no functional advantages over a Shimano BB, although they will likely last longer. But the Shimanos seem to last me for at least ten years, and cost $100 less than the Phil Wood equivalent. If cost is a concern, that's a painless way to save a good chunk of it.

fietsbob

Gippiemme Special Triple crank was Made with the 5 spider arms with more Metal in them
so as to have the Bolts for a 3rd ring not going thru the arms That BCD is a 86 like stronglight 99.

I got one to Build up My 52-36 2 of 3 Plus a Large Chain ring Guard for the outer , from Campag.

BTW Phil makes 2 different ISO & the JIS taper spindles , shimano Only makes JIS these days ,
so stay away from european cranks if you want to use the Lower cost BB

For a While the Japanese companies copied Euro Parts so completely they used ISO taper in their's.

jonwvara 

I've never seen or heard of a problem caused by combining a JIS spindle with ISO cranks. It's going the other way that sometimes causes problems. Sheldon Brown has a good writeup on this. I'm too lazy to look up the link, but it shouldn't be hard to find.

Darth Lefty 

So here's the idea I had most recently.

Keep the Campy bb
Forget about the 52 ring
Put the Red Clover 42 on the outer position
Use the triplizer holes to put a 32 ring on the inner position
Run an Nx11-27 cassette, not freewheel, at the rear

This gives a gear range of 32-103 inches, where the original setup (52-42, 14-28) gave 40-100 inches

Would the triplizer bolts interfere with the crank arm? Hm...

ThermionicScott 

It's a nice idea, but the extensions on Jon's would interfere with the crank spiders. Triplizers like the Merz might work, since the extensions go between the spider arms:



(Image pilfered from *assemblylinecollective*'s flickr.)

@Salamandrine's later post made me think that the inside ledges of the spider may interfere with the chain, so you may need much longer granny bolts, if it would even work at all. Hmm...

jeirvine 

That's an interesting article, but a little odd: Campy made a factory Record triple from '73 to '86. And the pic of Battagli's looks identical:

They may well have just bolted a factory triple on to a standard double BB spindle, (and modified the frame for clearance). Seems like a lot of work to custom make a triple crank that was already available off the shelf. And if you decide to go the same route - adding a third ring by drilling your double - you'll need a wider spindle. If your current crank is pre-1978, you'll want a 118 mm spindle if Italian, and a 117 if English.

Salamandrine 

I'm reasonably certain that won't work at all. No room for the 32, and how would the chain shift past the now empty inner chainring position?

I think if you want to save some money, search some bike shops for a campy compatible spindle (avocet/ofmega/galli/whatever) that's ~5mm longer; or simply put in a modern cartridge BB that's cheaper than Phil, like Tange that rivendell sells, or Shimano.

Then use the triplizer as intended.

ptempel

Ah, that's what I thought. You do need a longer spindle BB. I don't think the article mentions that or whether they changed the front derailleur as well.

Darth Lefty 

Yeah, I had an idea in my head that the triplizer holes were offset 36deg from the main bcd, like on the 122 bcd model, but on the 144 they are in line, it would definitely not work as I described. You could set it up like the triple but without the outer ring, but it would just be ugly. Probably better to find one of those look-alike 110 cranksets.

The gearing looked good, though, didn't it?

Metacortex

That factory Record triple crankset first appeared on the 1970 Schwinn "Diamond Jubilee" Paramount P15, and in fact I believe it was created at Schwinn's behest.

ThermionicScott 

jonwvara 

I actually did something very much like that. There's a report about it on my blog--google "Installing a Triplizer as a Compact Double." The triplizer goes in the normal middle position, with a toothless bash guard in place of the missing outer ring. You can buy manufactured bash guards in the 144 BCD, but since I performed this experiment with a 122 Stronglight, I made my own bash guard from a worn-out chainring.


It seemed to work very well, and I thought it even looked good. That said, I didn't ride it for long--just a few 25-mile test rides, if I recall.


If I could justify making a 46- or 48-tooth triplizer that setup would actually be pretty practical. But I don't think I would sell enough 46s or 48s to make it worth the effort.

Bad Lag

Bottom bracket shell measures 67 mm wide. Threading is English.


Bottom bracket is a Phil Wood from ~1977-78. The spindle is 113 mm wide. Of course, I already have a pair of Phil Wood lock rings that fit the BB shell and an installation tool.


I will want a new bottom bracket with a spindle that is at least 6mm wider on the right side than the current unit. The existing unit, if installed exactly centered, leaves essentially zero clearance between the inner chain ring and the chain stay. < This is bad!

vtchuck

Another option discussed in an older thread:

PlanetX Cranks

Here is a 175mm 110BCD 48-34 on my PX-10:

Cranks

IMHO, the cranks look right on a vintage bike.....

jonwvara 

That's a pretty nice-looking crank, the price is reasonable, and the 48-34 makes a pretty nice wide-range double. But according the site you linked, the crank has a BCD of 130, and 38 teeth is as small as you can go on a 130 crank.


So how does the 34-tooth ring go on? Perhaps the 48-34 crank has a BCD of 110, and just the 52-39 version (or is it 53-39? I forget.) is 130?

vtchuck

Its a little confusing, but the 48-34 is 110 and comes with drillium ..... I got mine for about $120 US including shipping on sale.... waiting for the price to drop again & I'll probably snap up another one.

Not to take anything away from your triplizer.... really nice, well crafted item and Vermont product. If I had managed to find a 175mm Stronglight crank for the PX-10, I'd be using your adapter.

Salamandrine 

I spent a couple years watching ebay for a 175 Stronglight crank for my PX10. At some point I gave up. Then one day I just randomly thought about it and looked. There was an auction for a nice clean 175mm 93 crankset closing in like 30 seconds. By the time I got signed in, it was gone.....

FWIW there's been a 175 Nervar on ebay for some time. It's not quite right, but would not look out of place on a PX10. Too bad about the 128BCD though.

jonwvara 

Yes, 175 Stronglights are almost impossible to find. Fortunately, 170s are everywhere. I'm lucky, I guess, in that my legs can't tell the difference between 170 and 175.

jeirvine 

I just posted a few BB/parts here that may work for your situation.
-J

vtchuck

Don't know if this will work with a Phil Wood BB, but you might check out a BB spacer. It fits between the right hand cup & the BB shell and comes in various thicknesses.

I used this with my Trek w/ a standard Campy double BB & spindle. It allowed me to use a set of Daytona 48-38-28 Willow triplizered cranks with just enough room to clear the inner ring. It may have had something to do with the mixing of an ISO spindle with the Daytona cranks .... which I guess might be JIS, but it worked.

Triple

jeirvine 

The nice thing about Phil BBs is that you can tweak the chainline a bit by design. There's a few mm's of wiggle room so you can set it more or less to the drive side or NDS. I don't think a spacer would be needed - there's no lockring or fixed cup ring to space out.

top506

+1
When I tripleized the Mirella I cranked out the drive side ring 4 or 5mm and snugged up the non-drive side. Worked like a champ.


Top

Bad Lag

With the existing bottom bracket, I need to move it to the right as far as possible just to get the inner ring away from the chain stay.


If I add a triplizer, I will need a different BB with a longer spindle.


Jeirvine, thank you for the link to those items. They are nice. They also prompted me to completely re-think about alternative ways to achieve the same goal (Stronglight 49D or other replacement crank). If I could get a set up like the red bike photo you posted, I'd be in "hog heaven". My bike is even red, so that photo was perfect!

Bad Lag

I received the shifter cable in the today's mail, so I went ahead and installed the wide range freewheel, Ultra-6 chain and rear derailleur.


I also moved the bottom bracket to the right. It was the repeated tightening of the crank bolts that moved the crank enough for the chainwheel to contact the frame.

Bad Lag

Here is a photo of the revised drive set up.


Aesthetically, it is out of character for the bike.