Cannondale Black Lightning Tire Rubs Front Derailleur
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cannondale Black Lightning Tire Rubs Front Derailleur
Hello All,
I have a 1989 Cannondale Black Lightning, I got it off Craigslist in 2008. About a year ago I replaced the old worn tires, which were on the bike when I bought it, with 27x1 Panaracer Pasela Tires. I thought these were the correct size for the wheels. Since then if I inflate the rear tire to the recommended pressure, or within 30 PSI of it, the tire rubs on what I believe is the front derailleur mount (see photos).
My intuition says the I got the wrong tire, but I've seen these tires on a lot of Black Lightnings around this forum and elsewhere. Is there an adjustment I can make to the derailleur, or some troubleshooting I can do to determine the culprit.
Thanks you for your time and help.
I have a 1989 Cannondale Black Lightning, I got it off Craigslist in 2008. About a year ago I replaced the old worn tires, which were on the bike when I bought it, with 27x1 Panaracer Pasela Tires. I thought these were the correct size for the wheels. Since then if I inflate the rear tire to the recommended pressure, or within 30 PSI of it, the tire rubs on what I believe is the front derailleur mount (see photos).
My intuition says the I got the wrong tire, but I've seen these tires on a lot of Black Lightnings around this forum and elsewhere. Is there an adjustment I can make to the derailleur, or some troubleshooting I can do to determine the culprit.
Thanks you for your time and help.
#2
Still learning
I thought only the STxxx touring bikes in 1989 have 27" rims? See specs for SR500, which is all black and shows 700c rims.
https://vintagecannondale.com/year/1989/1989.pdf
Loosen the QR and pull the wheel back as far as you can in the dropout.
https://vintagecannondale.com/year/1989/1989.pdf
Loosen the QR and pull the wheel back as far as you can in the dropout.
Last edited by oddjob2; 07-24-16 at 04:53 PM.
#3
Catching Smallmouth
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In a boat
Posts: 590
Bikes: 1990 Specialized Sirrus Triple, 1985 Trek 460, 2005 Lemond Tourmalet, 1984 Schwinn LeTour 'Luxe, 1988 Trek 400T, 1985 Trek 450, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1993 Diamond Back Apex, 1988 Schwinn Circuit, 1988 Schwinn Prologue, 1978 Trek TX700, Sannino
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times
in
79 Posts
If I'm not mistaken Black Lightnings would have been equipped with 700c wheels and tires. If you are unable to move the wheel back far enough to fix the rubbing you may have to swap back to 700c wheels & tires.
#4
Senior Member
What oddjob said. If that doesn't do it, maybe the other examples you saw were with 700c wheels(?)
Simul-posted with others saying the same thing I see.
Simul-posted with others saying the same thing I see.
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thank you all for your responses. I moved it around in the dropout as much I could, and it was still rubbing.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317
Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times
in
313 Posts
I believe the dropouts are semi-vertical and wont lend much for adjustment.
You need a 700c wheelset as aforementioned. Problem solved. The criterium designed racers have very little space for tire clearance even with 700c wheelsets as factory design.
You need a 700c wheelset as aforementioned. Problem solved. The criterium designed racers have very little space for tire clearance even with 700c wheelsets as factory design.
Last edited by OldsCOOL; 07-24-16 at 06:52 PM.
#8
52psi
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,015
Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 802 Times
in
391 Posts
Ouch. That fix is gonna cost a bit more than a set of tires.
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
#9
Motorcycle RoadRacer
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,826
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Thank you all for your responses. I moved it around in the dropout as much I could, and it was still rubbing.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
#10
Still learning
#11
Semper Fi
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,942
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 358 Times
in
241 Posts
Agreed 100%, the Black Lightnings came with 700C wheelsets, watch the For Sale section here, and eBay also. You can pick up a good set without too much expense from them, or even a co-op. That will be a nice bike once you sort things out, very nice for crits and sports riding, somewhat stiff, but great geometry for its intended function, IMHO.
Bill
Bill
__________________
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
#12
Senior Member
Thank you all for your responses. I moved it around in the dropout as much I could, and it was still rubbing.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
I went out and took a look at the rim, and it says: Araya 27x1 1/4 w/o JAPAN. Looking at the rim reminds me that I did ask someone that works at a bike shop what a good tire would be for the bike & wheel, and that's what they recommended. I guess it is possible that I got a different size than he recommended. I guess it is also possible the previous owner put the wrong size wheels on here. The only thing I've changed is the handlebar tape and the tires.
It isn't easy (not sure it's even possible) to find 27" tires smaller than 1". I think you are stuck and need the 700c wheels. They certainly will be a better fit and you will have vastly more tire choices, as 700c is the industry standard now, and has been for a long time.
#13
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,646
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times
in
935 Posts
My question is how he's ridden the bike with 27" wheels for 8 years without a problem.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#14
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Tbh the last year or so since I've had the new tires I havent been in a place to be able to ride it more than a few times, and everytime I just resorted to letting air out of the tires until they didn't rub and saying I'd deal with it "later" (absurd and lazy I know). I'm finally at a place where I can ride often/commute, so I'd like to get it setup properly.
Thanks everyone for the replies, it has been very helpful. Looks like 700c it is, I'll keep an eye out on the recommended sites for a deal.
#15
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,646
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times
in
935 Posts
I know Paselas run a little big, but not exorbitantly so...
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 3,418
Bikes: 1984 Miyata 310, 1986 Schwinn Sierra, 2011 Jamis Quest, 1980 Peugeot TH8 Tandem, 1992 Performance Parabola, 1987 Ross Mt. Hood, 1988 Schwinn LeTour, 1988 Trek 400T, 1981 Fuji S12-S LTD, 197? FW Evans
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 1,004 Times
in
514 Posts
It's not the bike shop guy's fault. He recommended tires for the wheels you have, which have a larger rim diameter than the original 700c wheels. Otoh, if he mounted the tires on the bike (sounds like he didn't) he should have seen the problem and alerted you to it rather than sell you the tires.
It isn't easy (not sure it's even possible) to find 27" tires smaller than 1". I think you are stuck and need the 700c wheels. They certainly will be a better fit and you will have vastly more tire choices, as 700c is the industry standard now, and has been for a long time.
It isn't easy (not sure it's even possible) to find 27" tires smaller than 1". I think you are stuck and need the 700c wheels. They certainly will be a better fit and you will have vastly more tire choices, as 700c is the industry standard now, and has been for a long time.
Find a used bike with 700 wheels and plenty of clearance. Then swap wheels and resell the bike for a cost neutral solution.
#17
Senior Member
You could always just run a single chainring and eliminate the front derailleur. I think the 700c wheels are the correct solution, but depending on the terrain you ride, a 1 x 6 or 1 x 7 drivetrain can actually be quite nice.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,828 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Too much work.
Pretty sure the bike is 126 mm wide
The very cheap way out would be to go with a front derailleur that has the pivots in plane with the bike, the diagonal pivot approach places much mass near the tire.
#19
Senior Member
repechage, There really isn't much effort involved to install a 130 mm OLD hub into a 126 mm spaced frame. My '89 Cannondale has had them for years.
batemapa, I agree with the poster above who suggested Velomine.
Brad
batemapa, I agree with the poster above who suggested Velomine.
Brad
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,371
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2482 Post(s)
Liked 2,952 Times
in
1,677 Posts
Cannondale did 128 mm for at least one production year back then, during the transition between the 126-mm and 130-mm standards.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317
Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times
in
313 Posts
And Brad knows I will chime in to agree. Since the build 3 seasons ago my '88 Criterium Series has had the 130mm spaced Vuelta Corsa Lite zipping it along. Is it a difficulty spreading the few mm's to install the rear wheel? Only the first time. You get used to it, it really isnt a big deal.
#22
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,923
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 1,090 Times
in
638 Posts
It looks to me like the whole derailleur needs to be rotated a few degrees on the seat tube. It might make the difference between it rubbing and not, but hard to tell for sure with the macro lens there.
Observation: That's rather aggressive tread if the bike is intended to be ridden on the road.
Observation: That's rather aggressive tread if the bike is intended to be ridden on the road.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
#23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It looks to me like the whole derailleur needs to be rotated a few degrees on the seat tube. It might make the difference between it rubbing and not, but hard to tell for sure with the macro lens there.
Observation: That's rather aggressive tread if the bike is intended to be ridden on the road.
Observation: That's rather aggressive tread if the bike is intended to be ridden on the road.
Regarding the tread, I live in north Florida and it rains almsot every afternoon from about May to September. Also may use some very light trails. Also they were recommended, and I'm a rookie.
#24
Senior Member
700x28 has always been sufficient for me for a road bike that occasionally gets ridden on trails. That will get you about 1/4" of clearance or a bit more. 27" wheels are totally the wrong size on that bike. Someone just put them on there to flip it. Hack... Buy a set of 700c wheels from velomine or somebody and be happy.
If you want to bunny hop logs and boulders, you should get a mountain bike anway.
If you want to bunny hop logs and boulders, you should get a mountain bike anway.
#25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
700x28 has always been sufficient for me for a road bike that occasionally gets ridden on trails. That will get you about 1/4" of clearance or a bit more. 27" wheels are totally the wrong size on that bike. Someone just put them on there to flip it. Hack... Buy a set of 700c wheels from velomine or somebody and be happy.
If you want to bunny hop logs and boulders, you should get a mountain bike anway.
If you want to bunny hop logs and boulders, you should get a mountain bike anway.