shuru421

Cant I look for a different stem/handlebar to replace it? Thats what I was just thinking. Is this possible? My girlfriend wants to ride in a more upright position, saying the dropbars are not comfortable for her.

bulldog1935

I can offer you two choices - moustache bar works great on road geometry, uses road brakes, and road bar-end shifters are excellent. You need a taller stem (Nitto technomic) that is 2 inches (40-50mm) shorter reach that what you normally use for road drop bars. Forward/back saddle position will likely be the same, and probably a slight drop in seat height. I'm using a 70mm Technomic, and the GB stem with Maes bar that came on this bike was 120mm
There is about 160mm quill height above the headset
Rivendell sells a version of this bar, called Albastache that doesn't need such a short-reach stem. At least three good hand positions, on the wide sideways hoods, braking position on the bends, and a cozy wide position on the outside. Note how the brake levers are canted downward.


Going completely upright gets very tricky, because sitting up, you need much offset on the saddle - you need to be behind the pedals with your knees in front of you.
I had luck on a CX frame with Joe Ahearne's Map bar - these come in two widths, mine is the wider one. https://www.ahearnecycles.com/shop/ahearnemap-handlebar
80mm Technomic puts the grips even with the back of the stem, which seems to be a pretty good spot on my setup. I had to go with a Nitto S84 seatpost to get the seat far enough back for me. These need mountain brake levers, and I used index thumb shifters

Took me a couple of hundred miles to dial out grip circulation pinches by rotating bar at the stem, but this is a fast, long-distance bike.

I'm sure others will be able to offer their answers, as well.
If you want some more ideas, look at Rivendell's website and see how they set up bikes, but note they tend to be very relaxed geometry with long top tubes
rivbike.com
Note that Albatross bars sweep back and can probably use the same-reach stem as she uses on the road bike.

Here's an upright my buddy did on a Univega Mixte for his wife with the grips well behind the stem - don't know what bar this is

On this, could go to stem shifters, though he eventually made this an Afline IGH bike with a thumb shifter

Somafab.com has a lot of great bar options, but fit is everything - you need to think about stem.

Cool old Italian Cordorinos are also good bikes to look at - upright city bikes built on road frames.
google "Condorino images" and look them over

3alarmer 

...there are a number of ways to change your position on the bicycle using stem, bar, saddle position.


Most commonly, people try different stems (either shorter, which brings you more upright by bringing the bar closer), or taller like the Nitto Technomic, or one of the many aftermarket stems that can be bought that are both shorter in reach and angle up.

If you post a photo of the current setup, you'll get better suggestions.

non-fixie 

My wife refuses to try drop bars, but does like multiple hand positions, so if it were up to her all her bikes would probably have butterfly bars. Here's one of them (with the saddle still at my test ride height, hers is much lower):

Seizedpost

Hey Bulldog1935, where can I find more information about that Bianchi in your picture? I have a 1950s Maino that looks extremely similar.

Is this a "condorino?"

bulldog1935

si
there's a condorino website and that Bianchi is in there somewhere https://condorino.com/
Ciao

Bandera

Just about anything is indeed possible with an application of $$$, wrench time and proper modifications.

If the Project Scope is: "Convert My bike to a More Upright Position" you might need:

Requirements (What to deliver exactly)
Budget (Not to exceed X-$)
Timeline ( Done by Y-Date)

Some questions to help drive Requirements planning:

What Type: make/model/age of machine does she own? A pic would help here.
Using the simple old school fitting techniques (this is C&V) does it Fit her in Frame Size?
What type of riding does she intend to use it for?
How much time has been spend in riding the machine in it's current state?
Where does she expect/desire controls to be placed?
Are accessories like a front basket or lights required?
Simply asking Why the modification has been requested may well drive Requirements out to save time/$$$ and deliver what was actually implied/asked for.

Making random hardware changes vs. a careful examination of the rider's physical charteristics, the current machine, what the fit issues are, what the machine is to be used for, what costs are estimated and how long this will take might be useful. Or not.

If you've done all of that It's just a matter of selecting the hardware ( some decent choices out there), paying for it and installing: the Easy part and you'll deliver what was Required.

-Bandera Ex-PMP

due ruote 

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/857668-show-us-your-drop-upright-bar-conversions.html

Not sure why that link isn't working.

Check the Velo Orange website. They have several bar options. Just watch the clamp diameter so it fits your stem, and the tubing diameter so it works with your desired brake levers and/or bar end shifters.

squirtdad

would be nice to know what bike, shifters it has, but this one has

Nitto dirt drop stem, moves the bars up.
Nitto promenade handlebars.
You need to replace the brake levers, the levers from drops don't work
I like thse from velo orange Tektro FL750 City Brake Levers for 22.2 dia Bars - Levers - Brakes & Parts - Components

veloorange also has bars and stems.

big question is shifters? where are they now and what type

I put a simple friction thumshifter on my build....super simple and for me works great

browngw 

Old school Stem shifters usually work well on bar conversions. I've used them on a few. I converted a Nishiki International touring bike years ago for my wife's friend. It had down tube shifters. She still loves it. The 80s Raleigh Challenger was converted for a friend to be his "town bike".

John E

True. I originally built my UO-8 on a budget from a bare frame for my wife back when I was a starving grad student working at a Peugeot/Nishiki dealership and she was a brand-new substitute teacher in Los Angeles and Santa Monica schools. Since she did not like my drop bars and "toe traps," I went with Peugeot UO-18 bars, which look like what you put on that International. I also installed Schwinn TwinStik stem shifters, TA Professional cranks with 52-42 chainrings, and a SunTour VGT shifting my customized 16-18-21-24-32 freewheel, before Megarange became popular. Since we were car-free for the first 3 years of our marriage, the bike got a lot of use.

Quebber

I posted two other shots of this a few minutes back in a thread on Bikes on the Streets of Italy, along with a link to a pinterest board.

ramzilla

If you go upright then go all the way. Get all new: stem, handlebars, brake levers, thumb shifters, cables & housings, and, grips. Converting an old racer to upright handlebars is like a breath of fresh air in the morning.

ramzilla

You did a really nice job on that one squirtdad. Keep up the good work.

Classtime 

Shuru, you got pictures of your Girl's bike?
I put Nitto North Roads on my daughters mixte. Liked it so much, I put some Soma Oxfords on my trailer hauling Milwaukee Road.

SquidPuppet

I don't like running my stems too high out of the headset, as I can feel the increased flex. So to get the height I want, I run an old fashioned style bar with a lot of rise. they are inexpensive and available in many widths. Reach is easily adjustable with a good old hack saw or a pipe cutter.

ramzilla

Something like this is very nice for old racers:

Dimension 25.4 70mm Riser Bar 50deg sweep Silver

Trying to figure out what all the names & numbers on handlebars mean is pretty confusing. I always make sure upright handle bars include the description riser & sweep. Another good description is North Road style.

randyjawa 

As I age, I find my riding requirements, fit/comfort being the focus at the moment, changing. With that in mind, I started experimenting with different handle bar configurations. This is what I have learned about that...

Drop bars do not go well with an old man and a broken neck(usually)...





So, I decided to try some mustache bars (very cool looking, screaming vintage in a loud voice)...





Sadly, or not, the moustache bars proved to be equally uncomfortable and got swapped out for some Norfolk styled handlebar (including new levers and shifters). This is the way to go, as far as I am concerned...

bulldog1935

Without changing the stem, moustache bars will increase the reach. This is why you need a dirt drop or technomic stem that will bring the bars 2 inches closer and about an inch above the saddle. This position doesn't quite count as upright, but is semi-upright. Weight distribution on your tires is about the same as it was with drops. The design of these bars does go back - they were on many nineteen-naughties path racers.

Your Motobecane looks sharp, as do all the upright bikes on this thread (and I have a soft spot for the condorino Queb posted)

When you go to fully upright, you're running 70-75% weight on your rear tire.
Back to my Map bars, something I like about them is the totally natural hand position. It's easy to keep a relaxed grip and wrists relaxed and straight.
Here's a pretty good article on Alt bars that includes some nice midge and butterfly bars as well.
https://oldglorymtb.com/round-up-alte...ke-handlebars/
On his website Joe attributes his Map bar to the older Cinelli Pope bar, Jitensha does the same - the Jones H bar copied the angles and rise as did the On-One Mary bar and Jitensha Touring bar - all based on the same bar geometry.

We do have a tendency as we get older to lean on the bars. Not a good thing.
We should always support ourselves with core muscles. In fact, when you lean into your core muscles, you get a burst of spin energy that will take you up any grade. To avoid nerve and circulation pinches, neck and shoulders should be relaxed, elbows always bent, wrists never bent. This is how you make distance.

Stadjer

I think you need a bike with quite an angle on the seat tube, but you could also put the saddle to the rear as much as possible. If she's really upright, the position of the handlebars doesn't need to be that precise, the arms will comfortably adjust as long as she doesn't have to reach and stretch for them or they are to close to steer without the body in the way.

I don't know where the discomfort is, but also the saddle design can help to shift the weight to the sit bones, not as much as high handlebars, but it might allow for the handlebars to be a bit less high.

bulldog1935

throwing out one other option
Raise and shorten the stem reach with a Technomic Deluxe stem, use wide Nitto Noodle bars with interruptor levers
They drop on the outside (opposite of a rando bar) giving a very natural cross hand position.
Here is the cockpit on my daughter's go-fast, though these bars are not wide (42 cm) or set up tall (but below the saddle), using a Pearl stem.

shuru421

As always, thank you guys so much for so many options and suggestions. We have been debating options, now another question, will this riding style affect her ability on uphills? As in will it be harder? Id imagine it would be.

dim

here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...nversions.html

bulldog1935

If you have short gears and climb on spin, it comes from leaning into your core muscles will be the same regardless of bars.
If you're standing in taller gears, wide bars take some getting used to, but will still work. That was was the first shock on my wide-bar upright, but got used to it in a few rides and stand on it just fine now.
I rode that bike 25 mi with 1100' climb this morning.
Just to say this part again, any time you're climbing with spin, you want to bend your elbows, lean into your core muscles, which also transfers weight to front.
If you try it bolt upright, the torque from your spin will lift the front wheel.

Bandera

There are very good reasons that the Drop bar has become the standard for riding road bikes in challenging terrain, for long distances and at Pace for most riders: they simply work best for the variety of conditions encountered in open road cycling.

Harder to climb hills "upright: vs. drop bars?
You can gear down for about any climb but:

Having the several hand positions that a drop bar provides and the very important standing/hands-on-hoods allows a rider to move from position to position over hours/miles as significant effort is required.

Just as important: Descending.
Getting down "on the drops" lowers the center of gravity, weights the front wheel and is the safe/fast position for getting down the hill just climbed "in-charge" and at pace.

Just as important: Aerodynamics.
A long hard day fighting a steady headwind sitting upright vs. being able to get on the drops/hoods is free speed, if that matters.

I use a moustache bar on my town bike where no great pace is required, offers a heads-up position in traffic and gets up any hill it's geared to climb w/o drama but: it's fitted to get groceries in rolling terrain not for real performance or considerable distance.

The key to a successful Project, whether acquiring/modifying a bicycle or building a skyscraper, is to have precise well defined: Scope, Requirements, Budget and Timeline.

Taking a step back and answering the questions posed in Post #7 and adding:
"What terrain is the machine to be used for?" may help clarify what the requirements of the proposed Project really are. Perhaps: Make My Bike More Comfortable?

Good luck.

-Bandera