Facanh

I know absolutely nothing about downtube shifters, but I would like to put one on my vintage road bike. The frame is from the 80's. The bike originally had a Golden Arrow groupset on it.

I checked Velobase, and it seems that there are multiple types of Shimano downtube shifters? I would like a Shimano indexed 7 speed shifter. What models could I use on this frame?

Here is a picture of the boss, the bolt is M4.5

3alarmer 

...that's a (relatively) unique shifter boss. I looks like maybe you could fit a Shimano indexing shifter on there (that's what the protrusion top right in your photo is all about), but without fooling around with it in person, I couild not promise you it will work.

Eventually, most of the Shimano indexed shifters showed up with littttle silver, shiny adapters that let them work on regular DT bosses, so that's mostly what you see. If you pull that thing (# 6 in the picture) off your chosen set of 7 speed DT indexing shifters from Shimano, I think they 'll work on there, but I couldn't guarantee it.

fietsbob

French? they wanted their standard to be most popular . It was not to be.

Italy's was adopted.

Facanh

I also have these plastic "rings". I think they came with the Golden Arrow shifters.

Pics:

https://i.imgur.com/VFxVQb0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IkuwcfC.jpg

I guess I could just buy band on not braze on shifters, but that would look pretty stupid.

The frame is Swiss, bottom bracket is 68mm English. Aelle tubing.

Wulf

That is an old Shimano boss. I have them on my Batavus Professional (Dutch) bike because they had a deal with Shimano and we didnt think to specify what shifter boss to order. I modded some Campy NR shifters to work with them.

Facanh

So what shifters can I use on this frame? Only early Shimano stuff? Forget 90's 7-8 speed indexed?

billytwosheds 

I believe those are the "b" style Shimano bosses. I had them on an 80's Cilo, but have seen them on other frames too.

This thread will give some context:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...er-bosses.html

I ended up using a dremel to carve out a slot for that extra tab so that regular cable stops would work. It never fit 100% perfectly, but it served the purpose.

3alarmer 

...I've only had 6 speed indexing with those on the stuff I've worked on here. As luck would have it, I'm working on a project bike right now that has that setup. It's all early (and mostly difficult to source parts) stuff, with that sort of shifter boss and an early 6 freehub. Fortunately for me, it has all the original stuff still on it.

If you can't source the stuff in the link provided above (the B boss link), you have to get "creative".

It's easier to get creative if you are satisfied with friction, not indexing....as also stated above.

3alarmer 

...BTW, those plastic rings look very much like the little silver things I told you about (# 6 in the picture). I think it would be well worth your while to scrounge up or borrow some 6 or 7 Shimano indexing shifters and to see if they might just drop right on there and work.

That's what I'd do first, but I have a lot of parts lying around here, so it doesn't cost me anything.

Facanh

I also have the M4.5 bolts for it, I might try it.

Or I might just get a clamp on shifter even though it looks dumb. The bike is getting a complete overhaul soon (modern groupset, new everything, repainting, customizing the frame a little bit) I just want to get oldschool and try downtube shifters for a while.

Maybe it's because i'm young but I don't understand how people can use friction shifters. Indexing the gears every time I shift would drive me crazy.

FXjohn

i used them for a while. they aren't as fun, but you can get very good at using them

JohnDThompson 

That's a Shimano "A-type" boss:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

rccardr 

I did a thread several years ago showing how to reshape Type A bosses so that other common shifters and downtube cable stops could be fitted. Do a search of the forums, you'll find it.

davester

From that comment, I presume that you've never used them, or if you have then you used some terrible ones. Friction shifting is easy, and doesn't require futzing around with cable adjusters like index shifting does. With modern ramped cogs, 6+ speed clusters and narrow chains, friction shifting is easy as pie with virtually no trimming needed. In the olden days of 5 speed clusters and unramped cogs it was slightly trickier, requiring maybe a second of two to adjust the shift lever each time but still no big deal. With a very small amount of practice most people can shift perfectly with muscle memory.

nashvillebill

(forgive me if I make a short story long)

When I grew up, I only had single-speed hand-me-down bikes, until my dad finally bought me a 3-speed upright department-store bike.I quit riding it sometime during high school, and went a couple of years without riding a bike. Eventually halfways through college I decided to get a new bike. Until I went shopping, I had never ridden a bike with derailleurs, much less a bike with drop handlebars and downtube friction shifters. The limited instructions from the bike shops were "you gotta be pedalling to shift gears" or something along that line. Eventually I came home with a 12 speed Univega Viva Sport (in 1979). There was a learning curve but within a few rides I think I had the basics of friction shifting down. Within a few months I wasn't even thinking about shifting, it was pretty much automatic.

After college, the bike got ridden less and less, and a few years ago I sold it; I had probably only ridden it once in the last 15 years prior to selling it. The last few years I rarely rode a bike, and then it was on a sedate Huffy comfort crusier with index shifters. Then my life circumstances changed, and I wound up back in good cycling country. So last winter, 34 years after graduating college, I impulsively looked at Craigslist and saw a vintage bike that reminded me of my old Univega. On the way over to check it out I even had a brief thought "can I remember how to ride this thing?" But I hopped on, pedalled a few feet, and next thing you know, I had already reached down and shifted the ancient downtube friction shifters without even thinking about it. Then after buying the bike and cleaning it up, I went on a longer ride, and again without even thinking about it, I realized I had just shifted both the front and rear derailleurs at the same time with one hand--just like I had learned back in college. No drama, no wobbles, no grinding or scraping noises, just a "snick snick".

All that to say...downtube friction shifters are not hard at all to learn, and not uncomfortable to use. A short reach down and move the lever.

willydstyle

I only just started using friction like 2 years ago, and it's fine. It's a learned skill like any other, the same as learning where the buttons are on a video game controller or keyboard without looking.

Facanh

I tried a Golden Arrow shifter on a 6 speed cassette. I could never shift it perfectly for the first time, meaning it always made a little bit of "clicking sound" and needed adjustment like when the indexing is slightly off on a indexed shifter. I can't imagine I could ever get the hang of it, the slighest "clicking" sound would drive me crazy. I imagine with 9-10 speeds it's basically impossible to use. But if people can do it that's great. Indexed shifters require "futzing around" only once in a few months with the exception if you change cables or a shifter etc of course. But you can set them up in minutes and forget it for a while. I live in a hilly area, I shift a lot, I could never ever imagine using friction shifters. Indexed downtube shifters are "bad enough" for me. I just want to try them for a while.
I know this is the vintage sections, sorry! Don't want to talk crap on vintage stuff. I absolutely love lugged steel frames, but personally I don't like using other oldschool technology.

Thanks for the help everyone.

bulldog1935

If you have 126mm rear axle spacing, it's very easy to spread to 130mm and gain 9-, 10-sp rear.
I don't if anyone has answered the question - and maybe I missed it - whether your bosses would work with these:
Shimano Dura-Ace 7700 9sp Down Tube Shifter Set | Chain Reaction Cycles

Facanh

126mm, right now i'm on 7 speed but soon i'm building up the frame with modern components (11spd) and the frame is going to get customized a little bit, rear dropout change, brake bridge change, spreading the rear triangle etc.

These shifters won't work with the bosses I have on my frame. I just want some simple and cheap 7 or 8 speed downtube shifters that will work with my current cassette until I build the bike (need to save up a little bit more $).

Edit: In the meantime I found out that as 3alarmer
suggested shifters made for the "normal" Campy bosses do work on Shimano A type bosses without that plastic ring. A local guy I know tried it. Little bit ugly but it'll do.

bradtx

Facanh, If shifters made for the Campy style boss work, try the Shimano R400 DT shift levers. Front is friction and the rear is 8S indexed (only). I'm using 8S indexed shifters on a 7S and it works well.

Brad

Bikedued

You can also switch to bar end shifters or brifters, and machine/dremel notches into a set DT adjusters. You will not be able to use the stock DT adjuster mounting hardware, as the threads are smaller than most shifter mounting screws. Either that, or the thread pitch is different than most. Older proprietary stuff like this drives me nuts. The companies are beginning to do it again. Headsets, front derailleur mounts, etc.,,,,BD

ollo_ollo

"You gotta be pedaling to shift gears": I got that when I bought my 1st derailleur bike back in the early 60's. It was a 5 spd rear derailleur only, but seller also added "If you have shifting problems, fiddle with these 2 screws until it gets better" so I was fully schooled for the day. Don

Facanh

Even though I know nothing about DTs after looking at some pictures i'm fairly certain I won't be able to mount a regular DT on the boss I have even without using the plastic ring.

Here is a picture:



On the right is my shifter boss, on the left is some random DT I found.

I'm 99% sure those little tabs on the shifter are going to hit the area where the red arrow points and I won't be able to secure the shifters. They will just spin around.

rccardr 

You are correct. Plus, the Type A mounts use 4.5mm mounting bolts and all others use 5mm bolts. Your only options are to either use a Shimano Type A shifter like a friction 6207 (which is a very good friction shofter) or modify the mount with a dremel and re-tap the threads for a 5mm bolt.

It can be done, just look up the previous thread with the search function.

mikemowbz

Maybe you just need a little more imagination.

You've been born at the right time - no need to pick up the friction shifting skill-set if you don't want to. But it's no great challenge to do so. As others have stated, it just takes a little experience...and with Hyperglide freewheels/cassettes (rather than old-school ones), it's easier than it was.

I've not tried friction shifting with 9 or 10 speed systems, but 8 shift beautifully.

As already stated in the thread here, your options are pretty limited for DT shifters - or for down tube cable stops when you go to run bar-ends or integrated shifters - unless you modify the bosses per the good Doctor's advice. Definitely check out his (@rccardr's) old thread on the subject if you'd like to learn more and explore your options.

Sans modification, my understanding is that you're limited to certain older models of Dura Ace, 600 Arabesque, and Golden Arrow shifters (possibly some lower-end offering of the era as well?) I had a 1981 Apollo Imperial, manufactured by Kuwahara in Japan, that had 'em. I used some old Shimano 600 Arabesque shifters I had on hand, and sold those with the frame due to the challenge the A-type bosses otherwise present when buildlng up.