vascoboy

hello all,
trying to build out an 89-90 Gios Compact w/ components of the era. Campy looks to be the obvious choice, and looking to install Syncro 2 shifters that was the flavor du jour. Have not decided on RD or freewheel yet (127mm spacing) which is why I'm writing.
I've searched high/low about these shifters, including the great article "Tears for Gears" (blog by Jeremy), that offers a lot in insight about Campy's foray into index shifting. These shifters were equipped w/ toothed & colored ring that were compatible w/ various freewheels, # of speeds, chains,... The ring on my Syncro 2 shifters counts 6 notches (so 6 speed...) but it has no markings (such as 6V, 7V, etc.), and is not color coded. If anybody has info about this, let me know.
On another unrelated and crazy note: would it be insane to build this bike w/ Shimano Dura-Ace 7400 of the era? It's very classic looking, has that retro-future look that I like, and probably works better than Campy's index shifting. I have to guess that many riders built out their Italian framesets w/ Japanese components during the late 80s early 90s. Just an educated guess here...
Thanks all!

Spaghetti Legs 

I've been wanting to start a "Syncro Success Story" thread where folks list their working Syncro setups.

My '89 Bianchi is 7s Athena with the grey insert. It has the stock Athena drive train with a Sachs freewheel and KMC 72 chain. It shifts flawlessly. Your insert does indeed appear to be 6 speed and I wonder if you took it out if you would see vestiges of the yellow or red color.

I don't see any problems putting the 7400 on the Gios (and I'm a Campy and Italophile) as long as you don't try to use that Syncro with it. I don't think it would shift that well. On a related note if you decide to go Campy 7 speed I might be able to help with a trade. I have a couple of 7 speed Syncro sets and I've been sniffing around for a 6 speed insert to change out the less than stellar shifting on my C Record Merckx, currently fitted with Dura Ace indexed shifters.

Camilo

I have a Syncro Success Story:

Mid-80s Sannino frame and fork
Full Campy Record 8 speed with 8 speed Syncro-type* downtube shifters and period-appropriate Record levers and brakes
Works perfectly with a Shimano 8 speed cassette. Prior to that I had the bike set up with Shimano Dura Ace indexed DT shifters. I would have to say, the Shimano indexing in the shifters is a little smoother and refined feeling, but the actual functioning is essentially the same. The Syncro work perfectly fine, in spite of some urban legends that they aren't any good.

*I've been told that these shifters aren't actually Syncro2. Maybe call them Sycro3 or Syncro3a since there was one more, final, iteration although still 8 speed. These images, from the Tears for Gears site The last gasps of Syncro ~ tears for gears are what I have:

vascoboy

I'll let you know about a trade because I just might be looking to go 7 Speed Campy. If I decide to go the Dura Ace 7400 route on the GIOS Compact, I certainly won't be using the syncro shifters. I love the Italian stuff to, but for some reason I think the look of the DA7400 would suit this bike.


The syncro success stories would be a great thread...I'd love to know about them.

3alarmer 

...makes sense to me. this topic comes up from time to time (Shimano indexing group on better Italian frameset), and it works pretty well, for me anyway. You saw a lot of Cat racers setup that way when all this stuff was new.

Here's what it looks like. If you look closely, you'll see I opted for some newer, no name Tektro dual pivot brakes, which I had lying around and which work probably a little better than the Dura Ace of that time period.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of what works well. I try not to ignore the aesthetics entirely, but I put them together to ride, not to look at.

Michael Angelo 

Go 8 speed Syncro, it works great. I have an 8 speed and a 10 speed version.

paulkal

I had one bike with 8 speed Syncro and matching derailleur, it shifted perfectly.
On another bike I have 7 speed Syncro I, shifting a C-Record rearderailler with a regina freewheel and chain. That one shifts ok, a bit noisy and slow.

MKahrl

I have a Synchro I on a seven speed with a good looking Chorus rear derailleur and it works fine.

Michael Angelo 

My 8 Speed Syncro set up, it's Record, and Croce D'Aune mix. Super Mondia.




10 Speed syncro, Ciocc Competition SL



10 Speed syncro Record Shifters



Record Drive train

vascoboy

I thought Syncro I was 6 speed (at most) or friction? I can see 7 speed if you're running friction.


christian

vascoboy

what kind of freewheel & chain for the 8 speed Syncro...I'm trying to get some ideas for winning combos, 'cause these shifters are finiky...

Michael Angelo 

Campagnolo 8 speed cassette hub. Any 8 speed rear derailleur, 8 speed. Synchro shifters. They came in 2 spring and 3 spring version. The 3 spring version can be upgraded to 9 and 10 speed later if you wish to do so.

paulkal

Campagnolo 8 speed hub and cassette with a SRAM 8 speed chain. Works perfect.

vascoboy

thanks for all of the replies and recommendations...I should have prefaced that I have 126mm spacing for rear wheel, so that limits me to Freewheels...
christian

Camilo

I didn't mention it in my post above. With my 8 speed Syncro shifters and Record RD, I'm using a Shimano 8 speed hub/cassette. I originally bought a Jtek Shiftmate to use with it, but forgot to use it when I built the bike..... and it's always shifted perfectly.

FWIW: it's easy enough to cold set that rear spacing to 130mm for cassettes. You can also just put the 130mm wheel in there without a lot of trouble. That's what I did at first and then because it was a little fussy, and because I always wanted to try cold setting rear spacing, I did that using one of the several do-it-yourself methods, and then used a home made tool to check and adjust the dropouts. It was really easy, and I don't believe it's permanent in that you could re-set the spacing back to 126 if you wanted.

rjhammett

7 Speed Syncro II shifters are a pain. I had them on my '89 Bianchi Super Leggera. Never could get them to work correctly. Stay clear of them.

Spaghetti Legs 

Hmmm ... See my post #2. Maybe it's the Sachs freewheel that makes mine work so well.

D1andonlyDman

My DeRosa has 9-speed Campy Syncro shifters and Veloce derailleurs, and it shifts beautifully. As well as any of my 9-speed Shimano setups.

rjhammett

My bike was all stock with low miles and still it didn't work well.

T-Mar

Camapgnolo had three variations on the 6 speed Syncro II shift lever inserts. Yours appears to be the "red A6" insert for Chorus.

bulldog1935

not to hurt anyone's feelings, but the C-Record friction DT shifters (also Chorus) are the best thing going for Campy 7 and 8, and work great with any of the long-pull RD, Croce d'Aune and later.

LittleGinseng 

Hi, T-Mar. I've been studying vascoboy's insert. Might it be the yellow 6V insert, as the inner edge has been machined?

T-Mar

I've seen yellow and red inserts both with and without the edge. However, you may be correct. The yellow and red inserts are very similar.

verktyg 

I bought a 1987 Bianchi Giro about 10 years ago. It was all original and had probably less than 100 miles on it. The bike came with a Campy Victory gruppo with Synchro levers, and a Shimano 13-26T 6 speed Uniglide freewheel. All of the components were on Campy's recommended list.

After repacking all of the bearings etc. I started in on the 1st generation Synchro shifters. I wasted several Saturday afternoons trying to get them to index shift.

The problem was that I could get the shifter to work for a short time then it wouldn't repeat. It stopped indexing on the small sprockets. When I fixed that then it wouldn't stay adjusted on the large sprockets.

I tried different chains, freewheels and inserts, they were also all on the recommended list. No joy, still the same problems, the setup wouldn't stay adjusted!!!

Finally I tried some NOS Synchro II levers and 3rd Generation Synchros. They had the same adjustment problems.

I followed all of the recommendations in the Tears For Gears articles....

There are 4 separate Tears For Gears articles on Synchro levers:

Campagnolo Syncro II shifters ~ tears for gears

The last gasps of Syncro ~ tears for gears

June 2007 ~ tears for gears

The Syncro Rainbow ~ tears for gears

None of the Synchro levers work well in friction mode without modification.

I took Tears For Gears bailout recommendation and removed the guts from a Synchro II lever, now it friction shifts like like a regular lever.

Some people claim that Synchro levers work fine... But how many are using RDs that were made for indexing.

Something that I discovered about index shifting... Side to side float on the top derailleur pulley is the key to effective indexing.

1mm to 2mm of lateral float allows the chain to self center on the sprocket.

I've modified a number of older derailleurs so that the pulley floats and they index great!

The first experiment was a a Simplex SX610 derailleur shifting an on an 8 speed Shimano 12-28T Ultraglide cassette. I had to file down the inside travel stop so the SX610 would reach the larger sprockets.

I tried several different levers to find some that had a large enough barrel to wrap up the shift cable. I found some Sachs Rival 8 speed indexing levers that had a large enough barrel. Then I switched to indexing and it worked!

I've modified a Campy NR rear derailleur with a floating pulley. Now there's no trimming after every shift.

Indexing RDs work great with friction levers too. No trimming!


BTW, Campy Dolby retrofriction levers work about as well as Simplex Retrofriction levers...

verktyg

Chas.

T-Mar

I don't know why Tears for Gears recommends removing the internal mechanism to convert Syncro II to friction mode. All you have to do is pull the knurled knob outward and rotate it clockwise. One of my old team bicycles was equipped with Syncro II and you could switch it into friction mode, without dismounting, if the indexing went out of adjustment during a race.