trail_monkey

How does everyone feel about this? My wolverine with cowbell 2 bars rides like a cadillac. My 85 DX3000 Panasonic just feels different. The drops bars are not comfy on the hoods no matter what the angle. The bars are really narrow compared to todays standards. The bikes geometry feels super sweet and I love to ride it but it just doesn't seem that it would be as comfortable on a long ride compared to my newer stuff. I can't tear myself away from these vintage bikes though. They remind me of being a kid again.

Dave Cutter

I've heard different reasons/theory's as to why vintage bikes have narrow handlebars. One.... that most bikes were sold to youths/boys and the bars were narrow based on narrower shoulders. And the other theory I've heard is that it was believed at the time that the narrower placement promoted better aerodynamics.

I prefer 42cm wide handlebars... (and I like a compact design). But I am comfortable enough with even 40cm wide handlebars. I've gone to the local bicycle co-op on a couple occasions to get wider (yet period appropriate) bars for a vintage bike.

trail_monkey

I wondered about this too but I hate to rid this bike of the original bars. This bike was turned into a SS commuter with flat bars right after I got it and I did a 40 mile city bike path ride one day that way. I am now putting it back to stock with gears and the original drops so I have no long rides yet. But just hopping on it and riding around town feels awkward compared to my newer bikes. It feels like it is built for speed and not comfort. Maybe it is an acquired thing that you get used to after you ride enough?

Salamandrine 

Drop bars were not meant to be "comfy on the hoods". Brake levers were placed as far forward as possible. It was an intermediate go fast position. It wasn't until Shimano introduced STI in the 90s that hood slowly became the main position. Comfy position was the tops or the corners. There was also the pinch, which was hands on the ramps above the levers, held in place by thumb and forefinger. Look at some old race photos... Anyhow, if you want to be comfortable on an old bike, either adopt an older riding style, or replace bars and levers with modern ones.

40cm was pretty much the default size. 38 was also used, especially with smaller frame sizes. I guess it was for aerodynamics and light weight.

USAZorro

It's partly the design, partly the equipment, and partly the fit. You can certainly improve comfort by improving the fit, but tweaking fit won't make a bike set up in a racing geometry ride like a cushy hybrid. Perhaps you need to compare your modern bike to a cruiser.

St33lWh33ls

I read somewhere that narrow bars were also useful in sprints in a pack, less chance of hooking your neighbor. The general fitting consensus for bars is that they should be the same width as the points of your shoulders. When I switch between my Paramount and newer bike I really miss the flat tops and even transition to the hoods on longer rides, short rides not so much. YMMV

CliffordK

I suppose it depends on your definition. I've done a few upgrades to the old Colnago over the years. I never used to be comfortable braking from the hoods with the old Universal brake levers and Cinelli bars.

I now have IRD Blackbird "ergo" bars with flat tops on it, and they feel very nice, and Origin8 Classique brake levers. Braking from the hoods is now as natural as braking from the drops. Not quite as powerful, but very good from the hoods.

At some point I put on the Fizik Technogel (Life Rondine) saddle, with a moderately flat top. I don't really remember anything wrong with the old saddle (other than worn nose), but the Fizik saddle is very comfortable.
I kept the toe clips for many years, but as my riding increased over the last couple of years, I mounted a pair of SPD pedals, and it would be hard to turn back, although I can still comfortably ride toe clips. But the SPDs are nice.

Same old bike. Just BETTER

Now... the "new" Colnago (which is hardly new), just feels SWEET. It is hard to describe the different feeling. It is a good 5 pounds lighter than the old Colnago. Light and very responsive. And while the old friction DT shifters work well... it is hard to beat newish Campy SR 11S brifters.

Oh, bar width... I think I'd prefer 40cm (more aero?), although I'll take what I can get.

RoadieDropper

New bikes feel gooder...

trail_monkey

He said gooder......lol

SkyDog75

I find modern brifter hoods to be comfy. Other than that, I can't think of a reason the contact points on my vintage bikes would feel discernibly different than the ones on my newer bikes.

scozim 

While on vacation in Maui in 2015 I got permission from my wife to rent a bike for a week. I ended up with a modern carbon fiber Cannondale. Definitely light and stiff in the bottom bracket. However, from a comfort perspective it was horrible (and I had my own saddle) and left me longing for my old steel bikes. Many of the roads I was on were rough, some chip seal and often with lots of debris. The Cannondale just sent all that through my body. Maybe it was the frame, geometry - I don't know. But it cemented in my mind that I don't think I'd be buying a modern road bike anytime soon.

Seizedpost

I have no trouble positioning non-aero brake levers with Cane Creek hoods to be comfortable (for me) both in the drops and on the hoods. They also typically have shorter reach than brifters, making braking from the drops easier.
On the other hand, I have found that the drops on a lot of modern "ergo" drop bars don't have enough space for my hands. The straight part between the bend and the end isn't long enough for me.

Stadjer

Another theory might be that they just followed a standard width for roadsters. With mass cycling and public bike racks wider handlebars are a problem. Where I live 60's and 70's bikes fit well in old fashioned bike racks. There's been a trend toward wider handlebars and front racks, which goes together well of course, but they need modern wider bike racks to park with ease.

I have a vintage roadster with narrow handle bars, it felt a bit odd at first also because of the small handles, but I got used to it in a few days. And there are still a lot of old fashioned racks around, and it's much easier to get my bike in, despite the fact that thes wider handlebars next to get a bit in the way.

microcord

This general fitting consensus strikes me as very odd, and Jan Heine agrees with me.

The handlebars on my own bikes would strike most people as perversely narrow, given the bikes' other dimensions (and my dimensions). But I like them that way. I like them that way probably not because they're better that way but because I'm used to them that way. (In order to make my bike less of an obstacle when stored, I erred on the side of compactness when I put it together thirty years ago. I liked the result, and set up my two later purchases the same way.) My newest bike came with a handlebar that most people would think suited it: I found the sensation of being stretched when holding the drops odd at best and horrible at worst, and am happy with its narrower replacement.

And among those people obsessed about wind resistance and saving grams here and there (they don't include me), a little narrowness should be a good thing.

Dave Cutter

I love my old steel. The right steel bike... a quality made and well fitting steel bike with a comfortable saddle... can be very comfortable.

But some real advances have been made to bicycles in last half-century. So.. sure a modern bikes can be more comfortable than a vintage bike. But don't take that to mean that all modern bikes are more comfortable than all vintage steel.

The greatest contributor to bicycle comfort IMHO.... is fit. Some bikes.... just fit and feel like an old shoe or well worn jeans. Find a classic old steel bike that feels great from the start and put your favorite [brand/style] saddle and quality tires on it. Accessorize it with bars, tape, and pedals as you prefer. Then let the steel tubing absorb and deaden and shocks and vibration. You'll have as comfortable a ride as any modern, high-priced, go-faster, made today.

machinist42

I have what I recognize to be a totally preposterous theory which I recognize to be entirely outlandish. And here seems as good a place as any to advance it.
I think we are most comfortable on the bikes similar to those we rode when young, if we rode then of course. Our bodies were growing, and adapted to the machine. I rode my bike daily to school, rain or shine. I rode my bike to swim practice twice a day for 9 years. I never raced, I only rode.
Winston Churchill said "We shape our buildings and afterwards our buildings shape us." Marshall McLuhan's colleague and friend John M. Culkin, in attempting to summarize McLuhan's thinking, wrote McLuhan believed: "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us."

That is my theory, it is mine and belongs to me, and I own it and what it is, too.

(I also have a theory that some dinosaurs were thin at one end, thick in the middle, and thin at the far end...except the ones which rode Huffys.)

Jarrett2

This combo is what sent me to steel.

jimmuller 

For some strange reason this conversation sounds like discussing whether black or brown shoes are more comfortable. Which is not to say that some shoes aren't more comfortable than others. But geewillikers, adjust it so it fits then get back to me. If you want wider bars, get wider bars. And don't let those guys hawking we-make-it-fit services tell you what is comfortable and what isn't.

Okay, okay, I took my meds, I fell better now. Ooh, look at all the pretty color bikes.

RobbieTunes

I agree in part. I think I conformed to the bike in my youth, and now I tend to make it mine, both in fit and transmission of my meager power output. You hit on a good point: "like a kid again," and don't lose that.

Restoring to original is one thing, and if you can make your body like it, there is a neat value in riding it "like it was," getting back in the groove with the way it felt to an original owner. Remember, though, that original owner was coming to it as the "next best thing," while our comparisons are looking back from improvements over the years.

Changing it to make it the vehicle of choice for motion of magic, well, I've no problem with that. Everything changes, for me, when the rubber hits the road and my personal parameters provision the performance.

Good on you for thinking the way you do. See all sides, from inside and out. You'll get debate here no matter what, and it's some of my favorite reading material.

Good monkey. Good trail monkey.

Let's ride.

RobbieTunes

C'mon Jim. Brown shoes. Most Def.




Except on bikes.

Jarrett2

It depends on which, I guess. I found an older styled (but new) steel bike to be more comfortable than any of the modern carbon fiber, aluminum or titanium bikes I had owned or ridden. I do get a little kick out of new carbon fiber road bikes adding comfort features. That have spring mechanisms in the front and rear of the bike to soften the ride. And they are more expensive. It makes me wonder, why not save your money and just get a bike that is comfortable by design like a nice steel bike?

RobbieTunes

I had a 70-year old man call me last night, wanted some advice on buying a new bike. Someone told him to call me (which is bizarre on so many levels). He said he'd pretty much "settled" on a carbon frame, and he said he'd been informed I only rode steel.

This made me wonder why he called in the first place, but as we talked, he described the bike he wanted, the components he wanted, and I agreed with him that the carbon Giant Defy Advanced 1 with Ultegra and hydro discs was an excellent bike for what he was going to pay. I know that's a run-on sentence, but it said what I wanted to say, sort of, and I hope it's close enough.

The carbon bike was the one for him, in his mind. Ultegra was the group for him, in his mind, and disc brakes were definitely the type for him, in his mind. I sure don't disagree with him, and trying to yank him back to a 35-year old steel bike that would then require a ton of upgrades to get even with the Defy? I kept my urge to wrench for him in check. We'll ride when it comes in. Riding is the key. Huffy or Herse, no matter.

trail_monkey

Funny I was talking to a riding buddy yesterday and I said something similar to him. I had a Huffy Omni 10 as a teenager. I loved that bike! I rode all over and we rode in groups to the neighboring small communities around us. In the same junk pile of bikes that my Panasonic came from, he has old Raleighs, a ton of huffys (including several omni 10s), a couple Panasonic touring bikes, an old Mossberg bike, Coast kings, and old bikes I have never even heard of. To rummage through this stuff, most of which is junk as it was el cheapo stuff when it was new, just brings back memories. I guess I got off track. My point started out to be that I can't even imaging riding an Omni 10 today. It looks so awkwardly built and so cheap but hey as a teenager it was the bomb! One kid got one and everyone wanted one.

As far as to the original post I started here, I believe the Panasonic itself feels just fine. It is a very light bike. It is nimble and the steel is so responsive feeling. I think what I am noticing is the narrow bars and old style hoods and possibly the drop stem (which I have as high as I can safely go). The ergonometry on older road bikes does seem to differ more or maybe I should say that the way people believed they needed to ride was different. In the old days weren't we led to believe that everyone was a racer so should ride like one (except on a cruiser bike)? But in modern times don't we shame bike shops and others for instilling that belief in people who are not racers? I may be 100% wrong on this but from all the stuff I have seen written and debated over the last few years it appears as if attitudes have changed in the last 30-40 years.

trail_monkey

That's right!

jamesdak 

Well, this doesn't apply to me. I had one kids bike that had 3 speeds and the rest until I joined the Army were single speeds. My last was a big ol' heavy Schwinn style (don't remember the actual bike, but last I saw it was still in our barn) that I used to keep up with my buddy on his 10 speed. I took off the tank, rack, and fenders and flipped the bars over. Finally broke the frame out a rear dropout from doing jumps with it.

Looked a lot like this.



Now something like this means comfort: