Classic tourer
03-29-17, 02:14 PM
#27
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That year was more of a sport tourer IMO.
More importantly, 58cm/23" I suspect is too small. Most 6'4" people will fit a 25" frame best. Is the 34 your pants inseam, or your actual PBH? EG, I wear 34" jeans, but my PBH is 36.3"
More importantly, 58cm/23" I suspect is too small. Most 6'4" people will fit a 25" frame best. Is the 34 your pants inseam, or your actual PBH? EG, I wear 34" jeans, but my PBH is 36.3"
34" is pants inseam. I think other is only slightly more, I'm at work so It's not feasible to measure.
03-29-17, 02:23 PM
#28
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At 6'2" I find 58cm bikes too short. My pants inseam is 34". YMMV but I'd be looking in the 61-64cm range if I were you.
03-29-17, 02:27 PM
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03-29-17, 02:29 PM
#30
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sounds like the general agreement is too small. I'll keep looking for another tourer. I may post it on here and see what the herd thinks. Thank you all.
03-29-17, 02:35 PM
#32
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Someone over on the sales section is selling a Klein Performance frame with a 60 cm CTC seat tube that would probably work well for you (and that I am working hard trying to convince myself not to buy). You'd have to build it from the frame up with new parts (or swap as much over as you can from your Defy), but it seems like it might work for you (plus, it would remove the temptation from me).
03-29-17, 03:01 PM
#33
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I agree on the size issue. For reference, I'm 6'0", and I typically ride around a 58cm. I can ride a 62cm.
Also, a 610 isn't especially rare, nor should it be that hard to find the style of vintage tourer you're seeking locally. Given a bit of patience, I think you can find something in driving distance. And the one you linked may have "free" shipping, but it's just been built into the asking price.
Since this is to be a bike you'll ride all day several days in a row, fit is really important. I'd encourage you to take the money saved by not having something shipped and put it toward a bike fitting. There are tools online and phone apps, but a pro who can help you and understands the kind of riding you're planning to do could help a lot.
Also, a 610 isn't especially rare, nor should it be that hard to find the style of vintage tourer you're seeking locally. Given a bit of patience, I think you can find something in driving distance. And the one you linked may have "free" shipping, but it's just been built into the asking price.
Since this is to be a bike you'll ride all day several days in a row, fit is really important. I'd encourage you to take the money saved by not having something shipped and put it toward a bike fitting. There are tools online and phone apps, but a pro who can help you and understands the kind of riding you're planning to do could help a lot.
03-29-17, 03:46 PM
#34
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I've got your inseam and a bit more, though I'm shorter. I have ape arms, too.
My feet are a bit smaller, and I've had to adjust my panniers on my tourer to avoid heel strike.
I got lucky and found my Trek 720 in a thrift store cheap (75$) and bought it to keep fixie kids from hacking everything off it. Turns out there was a really nice bike under the dirt (it looked like it had been stored in a mudpuddle for several years). The 720 and the Miyata and the Specialized Expedition have internet followings, but there were a number of nice Japanese tourers that lack the cachet of those three. I've had both Shoguns and Panasonics in my grubby hands over the years, and both were fine but eventually sold. I recommend searching for some of the less known brands; some of them made really nice tourers.
I find my 720 tracks beautifully both unloaded and under load, but turns like a truck compared to a more nimble ride (say, my Eisentruat). Upright and an easy ride as well.
My feet are a bit smaller, and I've had to adjust my panniers on my tourer to avoid heel strike.
I got lucky and found my Trek 720 in a thrift store cheap (75$) and bought it to keep fixie kids from hacking everything off it. Turns out there was a really nice bike under the dirt (it looked like it had been stored in a mudpuddle for several years). The 720 and the Miyata and the Specialized Expedition have internet followings, but there were a number of nice Japanese tourers that lack the cachet of those three. I've had both Shoguns and Panasonics in my grubby hands over the years, and both were fine but eventually sold. I recommend searching for some of the less known brands; some of them made really nice tourers.
I find my 720 tracks beautifully both unloaded and under load, but turns like a truck compared to a more nimble ride (say, my Eisentruat). Upright and an easy ride as well.
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03-29-17, 03:51 PM
#35
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03-29-17, 03:54 PM
#36
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I've got your inseam and a bit more, though I'm shorter. I have ape arms, too.
My feet are a bit smaller, and I've had to adjust my panniers on my tourer to avoid heel strike.
I got lucky and found my Trek 720 in a thrift store cheap (75$) and bought it to keep fixie kids from hacking everything off it. Turns out there was a really nice bike under the dirt (it looked like it had been stored in a mudpuddle for several years). The 720 and the Miyata and the Specialized Expedition have internet followings, but there were a number of nice Japanese tourers that lack the cachet of those three. I've had both Shoguns and Panasonics in my grubby hands over the years, and both were fine but eventually sold. I recommend searching for some of the less known brands; some of them made really nice tourers.
I find my 720 tracks beautifully both unloaded and under load, but turns like a truck compared to a more nimble ride (say, my Eisentruat). Upright and an easy ride as well.
My feet are a bit smaller, and I've had to adjust my panniers on my tourer to avoid heel strike.
I got lucky and found my Trek 720 in a thrift store cheap (75$) and bought it to keep fixie kids from hacking everything off it. Turns out there was a really nice bike under the dirt (it looked like it had been stored in a mudpuddle for several years). The 720 and the Miyata and the Specialized Expedition have internet followings, but there were a number of nice Japanese tourers that lack the cachet of those three. I've had both Shoguns and Panasonics in my grubby hands over the years, and both were fine but eventually sold. I recommend searching for some of the less known brands; some of them made really nice tourers.
I find my 720 tracks beautifully both unloaded and under load, but turns like a truck compared to a more nimble ride (say, my Eisentruat). Upright and an easy ride as well.
03-29-17, 04:07 PM
#37
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here is the link to the bike....
minty 1981 MIYATA 610 Six Ten touring road bike 58 cm all original Super clean | eBay
minty 1981 MIYATA 610 Six Ten touring road bike 58 cm all original Super clean | eBay
The mid-80's Trek 720 was an excellent touring bike, with unusually long chain stays, but heavier riders often complain the bike is noodly. At my weight that isn't a problem, but you weigh more than I. Note, trek recycled the 720 model number for a hybrid bike that does not have such a great reputation.
Last edited by rhm; 03-29-17 at 04:13 PM.
03-29-17, 06:02 PM
#38
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I bought this one last summer. Although I have the seat all the way down and a smaller stem so I don't have any problem riding it, I am thinking that I should find one a couple sizes smaller. Dismounting requires extreme caution.
https://www.bikeforums.net/18844141-post22.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/18844141-post22.html
03-29-17, 06:42 PM
#39
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Given the all up weight you're talking about, you can't go wrong with an LHT, in your size. Of course, they don't come cheap, as far as I've seen.
I'm pretty sure a Klein is up to the task as well, strength/stiffness-wise, but I'm not clued in about their chainstay length, or other touring specific details (e.g. angles, braze-ons).
I'm pretty sure a Klein is up to the task as well, strength/stiffness-wise, but I'm not clued in about their chainstay length, or other touring specific details (e.g. angles, braze-ons).
03-29-17, 07:25 PM
#40
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Thanks! She looks good from a few feet, but up close she is quite rough. Actually picked her up for $85, took quite a bit of elbow grease, some oxalic acid and a can of clear coat, but put back together shes quite suited for the tasks at hand!
That said, I agree with @echo victor and @rhm, there isn't anything particularly special about the 610s of that era, compared to any other generic 70s/80s sport tourer. The only reason I bought that instead of using my Schwinn was the Schwinn was a few pounds heavier (~6-7), and pushing a packed box weight too close for comfort to the airline limit. Plus, it was $85! I got too attached, though, to replace it with a Univega Specialissma that popped up on my local CL for $225 a few months later.
That said, I agree with @echo victor and @rhm, there isn't anything particularly special about the 610s of that era, compared to any other generic 70s/80s sport tourer. The only reason I bought that instead of using my Schwinn was the Schwinn was a few pounds heavier (~6-7), and pushing a packed box weight too close for comfort to the airline limit. Plus, it was $85! I got too attached, though, to replace it with a Univega Specialissma that popped up on my local CL for $225 a few months later.
03-29-17, 07:55 PM
#41
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I'm among those who prefer the mid-late 80's Cannondale ST based touring bikes- the ones with the steel Tange forks. I ride my 88 about 1400 miles per year, takes a rear rack and front panniers so you can load it up as much or as little as you like. Mine has been updated with Deore derailleurs, Ultegra 700c wheelset and ten speed double with compact crankset, but even with original equipment they're very nice.
Somewhere else in this C&V forum there was a recent posting from a guy looking to sell some larger Cannondale ST's. If it were me, I'd contact him.
Somewhere else in this C&V forum there was a recent posting from a guy looking to sell some larger Cannondale ST's. If it were me, I'd contact him.
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Last edited by rccardr; 03-30-17 at 05:54 AM.
03-29-17, 07:57 PM
#42
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As noted earlier, if considering C&V tourers, don't limit yourself to just Miyata and Trek. Fuji Touring (III, IV, V) and early-mid 80s Univega (Grand Toursimo, Specialisma) and Nishiki Cresta are among the other viable options. I found my 57cm '84 Univega Gran Tourismo for $140! Good deals are out there if you are patient!
03-29-17, 08:36 PM
#43
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Joking aside, I'm 100% with the good Doctor on this one. Assuming a frame size appropriate for a guy your height and weight, with 30lbs of junk riding on the racks, you're going to appreciate the notably better stiffness of a Cannondale ST. Also the fact that it's actually a bit lighter than a similar size Cro-mo bike. And quite a bit lighter than a LHT that will fit you. These old Cannondales aren't hard to find; I snagged mine for a bargain $100 including that sweet Brooks Pro on there
cf: my 1990 Cdale ST600 in the 25" frame size: Stepping down to the 700c (from the 27") rim size allows for enough room to pack in beefy 35mm tires - with fenders. Could go up to 40 or 42mm without the fenders. As shown, it's set to fit me (6' 0" 33" inseam, longish arms) The only fit item I might change some day is a stem about an inch shorter.
My other Tourer is decidedly old-school. Peugeot Vagabond with a shorter wheelbase, heavier and slightly flexier Mangalloy steel tubing. Another great bike, but a bit of an anachronism compared to the Cdale, perhaps more of a "sport-tourer not quite up to carrying the same load as the newer aluminum bike. A very nice ride, though.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
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03-29-17, 09:15 PM
#44
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I love touring bikes.
Whatever a "touring bike" is is often up to interpretation. People have their own ideas, and some people don't really care- any bike is a touring bike.
IMO- for a classic tourer, you want cantilever brakes and 44+ cm chainstays.
Again, IMO- 1984-87 is the prime touring bike time- the specific touring design- with long chainstays, 2 or 3 bottle braze ons, front and rear rack braze ons, laid back geometry, cantilever brakes, the best in purpose driven tubing, the best in ATB/MTB/Touring components. It seems the bottom dropped out of the touring market in 1985. In 1985, the big makers made some of the most advanced and highest specced bikes across the board. The Schwinn Voyageur and Voyageur SP, the Trek 620 and 720, the Miyata 610 and 1000 as well as the Fuji Touring III, IV and V and other bikes were all great frames, made from great tubing featuring top of the line components. After 1985 Schwinn combined their Voyageur and Voyageur SP programs into the Voyageur- a really nice bike- but not as nice as the Voyageur SP. Trek dropped touring bikes all together for 1986. Miyata still made the Miyata 1000 as a kickass touring bike specced with top of the line Deore XT components.
I would seriously do a bunch of reading. Look what is important to you. Figure out what sizes fit you. Do not just go "MIYATA!! AWESOME!!!" Look at what you're looking at... stem shifters, center pulls, hi-ten fork... You're going to make mistakes; you're going to have to learn from those mistakes... Hell, I just figured out that I've been buying stems with the wrong length... I also just figured out that I don't like 175mm cranks. I shouldn't admit that, especially considering the amount of money I've thrown at stuff.
If you don't want to make the expensive mistakes- do *MORE* time reading.
My Trek 620 spoiled me. 47mm chainstays- effing nutz. But it set the standard. Over the past 5-6 years or whatever it's been, I've played with different stems, bars, derailleurs, shifters, wheels, tires... Right now, it's set up for 6 speed Suntour Accushift. It's a gloriously badass bike, and it rides like a dream.
My 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP was the flagship model tourer for Schwinn- it was Schwinn's most expensive bike, with the finest Columbus tubing and the finest of components available at the time. It was made by Panasonic and it's sweet bike. 45mm chainstays, I've changed all kinds of things on this bike- right now it's in a rebuilding phase- but this was it a few years ago:
Right now it's sporting a Stronglight 99 BIS crankset as well as the stock LeTech rear derailleur... I'm working out the shifting yet- right now it's sporting Suntour Barcons... Still with a 5 speed rear end though...
The most recent addition- the 1990 Miyata 1000. By 1990, the 1000 had Miyata's own splined, triple butted tubing, and it was specced with Shimano's 2nd from the top of the line ATB/MTB group- Deore DX. I've had this in riding shape for a few weeks- but I've upgraded a bunch of parts so it's sporting a bunch of XTR and XT parts in addition to some modern stuff, as well as some really old shifters.
And The Big Guy- the 1985 Trek 720. This bike rides so nice. Everything about it is so much what "bike" is to me. I've played around with so many different components and setups with this bike... and as much as I've dicked with it- it's still not *quite* there. I'm figuring I like the height of the stem- I don't like the length- I'd like my hands to fall on the hoods- and be able to rest back on the corners. Right now, my hands fall on the ramps. I'll figure it out someday... after another few hundred dollars... ****. This bike is set up with my idea of what the cat's pajamas of touring stuff is... XC Pro, Phil, Dura Ace, VX, king ****. I love this bike.
Whatever a "touring bike" is is often up to interpretation. People have their own ideas, and some people don't really care- any bike is a touring bike.
IMO- for a classic tourer, you want cantilever brakes and 44+ cm chainstays.
Again, IMO- 1984-87 is the prime touring bike time- the specific touring design- with long chainstays, 2 or 3 bottle braze ons, front and rear rack braze ons, laid back geometry, cantilever brakes, the best in purpose driven tubing, the best in ATB/MTB/Touring components. It seems the bottom dropped out of the touring market in 1985. In 1985, the big makers made some of the most advanced and highest specced bikes across the board. The Schwinn Voyageur and Voyageur SP, the Trek 620 and 720, the Miyata 610 and 1000 as well as the Fuji Touring III, IV and V and other bikes were all great frames, made from great tubing featuring top of the line components. After 1985 Schwinn combined their Voyageur and Voyageur SP programs into the Voyageur- a really nice bike- but not as nice as the Voyageur SP. Trek dropped touring bikes all together for 1986. Miyata still made the Miyata 1000 as a kickass touring bike specced with top of the line Deore XT components.
I would seriously do a bunch of reading. Look what is important to you. Figure out what sizes fit you. Do not just go "MIYATA!! AWESOME!!!" Look at what you're looking at... stem shifters, center pulls, hi-ten fork... You're going to make mistakes; you're going to have to learn from those mistakes... Hell, I just figured out that I've been buying stems with the wrong length... I also just figured out that I don't like 175mm cranks. I shouldn't admit that, especially considering the amount of money I've thrown at stuff.
If you don't want to make the expensive mistakes- do *MORE* time reading.
My Trek 620 spoiled me. 47mm chainstays- effing nutz. But it set the standard. Over the past 5-6 years or whatever it's been, I've played with different stems, bars, derailleurs, shifters, wheels, tires... Right now, it's set up for 6 speed Suntour Accushift. It's a gloriously badass bike, and it rides like a dream.
My 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP was the flagship model tourer for Schwinn- it was Schwinn's most expensive bike, with the finest Columbus tubing and the finest of components available at the time. It was made by Panasonic and it's sweet bike. 45mm chainstays, I've changed all kinds of things on this bike- right now it's in a rebuilding phase- but this was it a few years ago:
Right now it's sporting a Stronglight 99 BIS crankset as well as the stock LeTech rear derailleur... I'm working out the shifting yet- right now it's sporting Suntour Barcons... Still with a 5 speed rear end though...
The most recent addition- the 1990 Miyata 1000. By 1990, the 1000 had Miyata's own splined, triple butted tubing, and it was specced with Shimano's 2nd from the top of the line ATB/MTB group- Deore DX. I've had this in riding shape for a few weeks- but I've upgraded a bunch of parts so it's sporting a bunch of XTR and XT parts in addition to some modern stuff, as well as some really old shifters.
And The Big Guy- the 1985 Trek 720. This bike rides so nice. Everything about it is so much what "bike" is to me. I've played around with so many different components and setups with this bike... and as much as I've dicked with it- it's still not *quite* there. I'm figuring I like the height of the stem- I don't like the length- I'd like my hands to fall on the hoods- and be able to rest back on the corners. Right now, my hands fall on the ramps. I'll figure it out someday... after another few hundred dollars... ****. This bike is set up with my idea of what the cat's pajamas of touring stuff is... XC Pro, Phil, Dura Ace, VX, king ****. I love this bike.
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03-29-17, 09:21 PM
#45
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The Surly Long Haul Trucker is the "great value" for a fully loaded, front and rear pannier bike. What once was sold as a touring bike is a bit on the "wimpy" side if you're loading up the rear with lots of weight. If you don't like the stigma of low price, and want something flashier, Rivendell has a slew of bikes that ride that way.
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03-30-17, 06:18 AM
#46
Senior Member
My ST 1000 sure does ride nice. I have not tried full loaded touring but would not hesitate to load this one up. Very sold bike.
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03-30-17, 06:51 AM
#47
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I would seriously do a bunch of reading. Look what is important to you. Figure out what sizes fit you. Do not just go "MIYATA!! AWESOME!!!" Look at what you're looking at... stem shifters, center pulls, hi-ten fork... You're going to make mistakes; you're going to have to learn from those mistakes... Hell, I just figured out that I've been buying stems with the wrong length... I also just figured out that I don't like 175mm cranks. I shouldn't admit that, especially considering the amount of money I've thrown at stuff.
My Trek 620 spoiled me. 47mm chainstays- effing nutz. But it set the standard. Over the past 5-6 years or whatever it's been, I've played with different stems, bars, derailleurs, shifters, wheels, tires... Right now, it's set up for 6 speed Suntour Accushift. It's a gloriously badass bike, and it rides like a dream.
My Trek 620 spoiled me. 47mm chainstays- effing nutz. But it set the standard. Over the past 5-6 years or whatever it's been, I've played with different stems, bars, derailleurs, shifters, wheels, tires... Right now, it's set up for 6 speed Suntour Accushift. It's a gloriously badass bike, and it rides like a dream.
Having ridden my wife's 1984 Trek 620, however, I have to say this is without a doubt one of the nicest bikes I've ever ridden. Now I'm on the lookout for either a 620 or 720 for myself.
03-30-17, 07:25 AM
#48
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
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Very nice. I love the dark green. My one issue with the lower level ST bikes is that they were set up for caliper brakes, which cut into the tire clearance. I recently set up a ST400 for my wife and I could barely fit 32 mm Paselas with fenders. Fortunately, off road riding is not her thing, so it won't be an issue.
03-30-17, 10:37 PM
#49
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 96
Bikes: Trek 700, 630, 520, Peugeot PRN10E, Rivendell Redwood, Raleigh Super Course 12, Motobecane Grand Tour, Schwinn Voyageur
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And don't discount the lower echelon vintage touring bikes either. I've done thousand plus mile tours on a Specialized Expedition, Schwinn Voyageur, and Bianchi Randonneur, and owned both the Trek 520 (85) and 620 (83 and 84). The Miyata 210 (beautiful purple paint) can be had for a song, and mid 80s frames were splined triple butted. Fit is of course paramount, but so is proper load distribution. Those frames arnt wippy if loaded correctly.
