Folding tires
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 203
Bikes: The Grocery Getter.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Folding tires
So, I feel like this is something I should know the answer to... why would I choose a folding tire over the same model with a wire bead? I see that folders are a little lighter and obviously can be packed, but is that it?
Are there benefits to the wire bead, other than saving a few bucks?
I'm considering Continental Gatorskins based on review and ease of pick up. I like the durability and puncture resistance.
Are there benefits to the wire bead, other than saving a few bucks?
I'm considering Continental Gatorskins based on review and ease of pick up. I like the durability and puncture resistance.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 2,533
Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Speciale Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1982 Raleigh "International"
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 929 Post(s)
Liked 1,289 Times
in
486 Posts
Once they're on the bike you'll never notice the difference IMHO. Price and weight are the only real differences as far as I can tell. The Gatorskins are good sturdy tires. However, given their rigidity they are not very good when it comes to rolling resistance.
#3
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,793
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1390 Post(s)
Liked 1,322 Times
in
835 Posts
I have used folders on long unsupported rides, so that I could carry a spare tire in addition to a pump, tire levers, spare innertubes, and a patch kit. I do not recall ever needing to use the spare tire, since I could boot any minor-to-moderate tire cut with either a tube patch or even a folded piece of paper (or dollar bill, in a pinch ).
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#4
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,001
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4334 Post(s)
Liked 2,977 Times
in
1,614 Posts
Price and weight and folding feature. Wire beads are easier to mount maybe - Kevlar, especially new can be a real bear.
If budget's tight, wire beads would be a fine choice.
If budget's tight, wire beads would be a fine choice.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 203
Bikes: The Grocery Getter.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I'm mostly an around town guy but am putting these on a bike that I'm going to use strictly for recreational rides in a rural setting. So I've never been in a position to buy a road riding tire where thing like weight and rolling resistance were a concern to me. I will be venturing somewhat far from home (30kms to start, hopefully grow from there) and given the rural area, I'd rather avoid having to deal with punctures.
Happy to hear recommendations.
#6
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 386
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
It won't alter the puncture protection. I got a slash descending on some rocky material that was very large and I used a dollar bill to boot the tire. I must have been lucky, because once I got back I noticed the inner tube had ripped through the boot and had dirt and everything on it, level with the tire itself on the road. I carry a spare tire or some strips of Priority Mail (tyvek) envelope, it's stronger and cheaper than our USD. Australian money would make a nice boot. I haven't compared my wire Paselas to my folding Paselas on the same bike, but neither give me any trouble.
I did opt for the TourGuard Paselas on the folding tires thinking that the weight I save ditching the wire I'll put back in upgrading to better puncture protection. Makes sense in my head, but who knows if it means anything in the real world. Weight does though. I say if you can afford it, treat yourself =)
I did opt for the TourGuard Paselas on the folding tires thinking that the weight I save ditching the wire I'll put back in upgrading to better puncture protection. Makes sense in my head, but who knows if it means anything in the real world. Weight does though. I say if you can afford it, treat yourself =)
#7
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,492
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7341 Post(s)
Liked 2,439 Times
in
1,423 Posts
Folding tires weigh less. Sometimes the foldability comes in handy. For these reasons, I prefer them, provided the price difference isn't great. Sometimes they're hard to install when new, though.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#8
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,001
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4334 Post(s)
Liked 2,977 Times
in
1,614 Posts
#9
Optically Corrected
#10
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 10,997
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 278 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 4,580 Times
in
1,762 Posts
I've been using folding Paselas for quite a few years now. They're durable, reasonably good-looking and light, and easy to store and bring along on vacation trips. Never needed the spares so far, though.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,742
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,862 Times
in
1,439 Posts
I'd take a look at Continental's Grand Prix 4 Season tires. A little lighter than the Gatorskins but with almost the same amount of flat protection. Kind of the "in between" choice of the heavy Gatorskin and the supple/lighter Grand Prix 4000s2's.
I've actually had better luck (though I think it is mostly a matter of luck) in terms of punctures with GP 4 Seasons than with Gatorskins. I'm convinced the double Vectran layer on the GP 4 Seasons is better than the PolyX on the Gatorskins. The Gatorskins, I think, have a slightly thicker tread. It used to be that the GP 4 Seasons were a lot more expensive, but if you are OK with the 700x28 or skinnier versions you can find them for $30-$35 each.
As for wire bead vs. folding, I'm inclined to believe that this can actually make a difference in rolling resistance. There has been plenty of data collected recently that shows the suppleness of a tire's sidewall has a significant impact on rolling resistance. Extending that same idea, the folding bead will (in theory) be able to move more against the rim over rough surfaces and so should have an effect similar to a supple sidewall. It's definitely a small effect if it exists at all, so if budget is a concern I wouldn't give it a lot of thought. It's likely smaller than the inherent difference between Gatorskins and GP 4 Seasons, which is already not a huge difference.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 203
Bikes: The Grocery Getter.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Thanks all. I just ordered the GP 4 Seasons from Chain Reaction. Best price I could find them for.... ended up about the same as gatorskins locally
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,922
Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.
Mentioned: 194 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 630 Times
in
356 Posts
That's pretty much the whole story!
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,029
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4506 Post(s)
Liked 6,373 Times
in
3,665 Posts
I think in a worst case scenario a wire bead might hang on better having a solid foundation to stay on the rim, say big rock, pothole, crack, pinch, maybe.
#15
Banned
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 947 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I assumed wire bead tires would stay mounted better, no high pressure blow outs i.e. tire coming off the rim. This is not true? I have been buying wire bead tires for this reason but based on intuition. Figured the folders were mostly for storage purposes.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,525
Bikes: Indeed!
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1506 Post(s)
Liked 3,459 Times
in
1,129 Posts
If you have a problem with tires blowing off the rim it is a matter of bad match between tire and rim. Search for threads on using tires designed for hooked rims with straight-sided rims or the intricacies of the various 26" tire sizes.
Brent
#17
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,492
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7341 Post(s)
Liked 2,439 Times
in
1,423 Posts
I imagine a kevlar bead is more vulnerable to cutting, but given where the bead lives, well below the top of the rim's sidewall, there's no way to cut the bead. So no, it is not at more risk of blowing off.
I have a bike whose tires are tough to get on, and I understand the Pacenti rims are mostly at fault. When I ride that bike, I carry a Kool-Stop Tire Jack™. It's the only tool I will use to install a tire. When I use a lever to put a tire on, I have a 50% chance of pinching the tube. The Tire Jack solves that problem. It's a little bulky, but it's very lightweight, so it's no big deal to carry.
I have a bike whose tires are tough to get on, and I understand the Pacenti rims are mostly at fault. When I ride that bike, I carry a Kool-Stop Tire Jack™. It's the only tool I will use to install a tire. When I use a lever to put a tire on, I have a 50% chance of pinching the tube. The Tire Jack solves that problem. It's a little bulky, but it's very lightweight, so it's no big deal to carry.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#18
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,001
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4334 Post(s)
Liked 2,977 Times
in
1,614 Posts
Folding bead tires will stay on your rims just fine. There are many of us here who have collectively put many hundreds of thousands of miles on them without blowing a tire off the rim. In fact, as @DiabloScott points out above, some of the kevlar beads are a bear to get onto the rim and equally tough to get off.
If you have a problem with tires blowing off the rim it is a matter of bad match between tire and rim. Search for threads on using tires designed for hooked rims with straight-sided rims or the intricacies of the various 26" tire sizes.
Brent
If you have a problem with tires blowing off the rim it is a matter of bad match between tire and rim. Search for threads on using tires designed for hooked rims with straight-sided rims or the intricacies of the various 26" tire sizes.
Brent
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,545
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5222 Post(s)
Liked 3,575 Times
in
2,339 Posts
folding tires are easier to mount. wire beads do fail
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 203
Bikes: The Grocery Getter.
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Two things.
1. I am surprised at how the contis changed the feel of the bike. Love them. Thanks for the recommendation.
2. How does Chain Reaction get me tires from UK to Canada in three days!? Great experience and cost less than local.
1. I am surprised at how the contis changed the feel of the bike. Love them. Thanks for the recommendation.
2. How does Chain Reaction get me tires from UK to Canada in three days!? Great experience and cost less than local.
#21
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,434
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 645 Times
in
232 Posts
I've recently switched a bike to folding ftom wired. I believe I can feel the weight difference, but it isn't big enough to fret over. I would guess one can feel it more if the wheels are lighter. YMMV.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1635 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 823 Times
in
532 Posts
Frankly, I don't know why tire makers even bother to make wire beaded tires.......
I think it is old tech that they should let die out for good.
Been using foldable since I bought my first full sized bike in college (The first ones came standard on my 82 Peugeot PH10, Michelin Bib TS20's). Never saw the need to even try out wire beaded tires all these years.
Only time foldable tires got close to becoming a bear to install is when I had Ambrosio Elite 19 rims on my bike, and it was only during the first time I installed new Specialized foldable Turbos on them, but the tires eventually got easier to install with just my fingers and thumbs, after they stretched out a little bit after some miles.
I think it is old tech that they should let die out for good.
Been using foldable since I bought my first full sized bike in college (The first ones came standard on my 82 Peugeot PH10, Michelin Bib TS20's). Never saw the need to even try out wire beaded tires all these years.
Only time foldable tires got close to becoming a bear to install is when I had Ambrosio Elite 19 rims on my bike, and it was only during the first time I installed new Specialized foldable Turbos on them, but the tires eventually got easier to install with just my fingers and thumbs, after they stretched out a little bit after some miles.
#23
Senior Member
I'm kind of with you on that. I'm not sure why wire beads are still even used, except that they are slightly cheaper.
I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure the Specialized Turbo tires were the first folding kevlar bead clincher tires. At the time, a lot of people were still using rims without a hooked bead, so they had to be super tight. I used them for a while but they were too expensive for me since they wore out in about a month or less (race training high miles). I went back to sewups.
Only time foldable tires got close to becoming a bear to install is when I had Ambrosio Elite 19 rims on my bike, and it was only during the first time I installed new Specialized foldable Turbos on them, but the tires eventually got easier to install with just my fingers and thumbs, after they stretched out a little bit after some miles.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18349 Post(s)
Liked 4,501 Times
in
3,346 Posts
A kevlar bead will never rust (another failure mode for old and abused wire bead tires).
Wight may or may not be important.
Wight may or may not be important.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Dirt Farmer
General Cycling Discussion
16
05-03-17 09:48 AM