Dfrost 

@gugie has the fork from my '79 Miyata 912, which will be modified to be a more of a travel-bike:

- Low-rider pannier mounts
- Second set of dropout eyelets
- Rerake for more trail
- Braze-on posts for front centerpull brake
- Front rack on new brake posts and low-rider mounts. Front bag will be full-time, with a Gugie custom decaleur.
- Add-on low-rider pannier mounts for those traveling opportunities. Mark has done several variations of these racks.

This bike was originally 27" but has been happily rolling on 700c 28's under fenders and Shimano medium reach calipers for several decades. I'll keep the rear Shimano dual pivot for now and stick with that tire size. BTW, levers will still be Sachs Ergo brifters. Here it is before mods (many more shots by clicking on the photo).



So my question:
Which center-pull brake would the esteemed C&V crowd suggest?

I read lots of great stuff about MAFAC Racers, and Mark has several sets. Or maybe a different model of MAFAC? For pads I'll use something Kool Stop like the Eagle 2 canti. What's the pad adjustment like on these MAFAC's? And does the Racer require a QR at the cable housing stop?

Are Dia-Compes a performance step down from MAFAC?

Are the Grand Bois CP's available, and any benefit?

Paul CP's are expensive and blocky looking, I read about squealing issues, but these seem to be more amenable to toe-in adjustment with V-brake pads.

Any other thoughts?

bikemig 

The dia compe 610s are fine brakes.

Folks here might charge you a bit xtra if they know it's a gugie modified bike, just sayin'

cdmurphy

I can't speak to the effectiveness of brazed-on Mafac Racers, but I do have brazed on Dia Compe "Gran Compe" center pulls on my 1976 Centurion Pro Tour. (As far as I can see, the arms are identical to the regular 610, just with a "G" stamped to the left of the decal. Probably a bit better polishing too, but they appear to be the same forgings.) They stop extremely well with modern Kool Stop Superbe pads in the original Dia Compe holders. (have to file a bit of a chamfer to get them started, and a notch for where the bolt head will sit.) I would say they stop about as well as modern dual pivot brakes, even with the standard non-aero Dia Compe levers. Purely subjectively, if a standard vintage side pull with good pads is a "6" in stopping power, I'd put these at an "8" or "9".

I think it probably comes down to aesthetics more than anything. I'd go with Mafacs on a European bike, and Dia Compes on anything Japanese.

juvela

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Luv this header...

A new verb is born: Gugieficazione


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gugie 

Damn, I like it! I put a decal on one of @Wildwood's frames that said: "Che cosa potrebbe andare storto?"

The answer: Gugieficazione

gugie 

Funny, I've got a set of those Gran Compe centerpulls around somewhere from my Pro Tour. I put some longer reach centerpulls when I switched from 27" to 700c with 35mm tires with fenders, so that's an option as well. I'd agree that the matching of the Miyata with Japanese centerpulls certainly makes sense from an aesthetic viewpoint.

Wildwood 

juvela

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Thatta Guglielissimo!

Not only is he in the process of mastering torch and all manner of metal work, but now he is making transfers as well!

Enthusiasts in other fields have no end of words based on the franken- root. Only we retrogrouches here at C&V have Gugieficazione.

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palincss

I've got a set of bolt-on refurbished Mafac Racers on my 1963 Jack Taylor Sports. They are absolutely fabulous, and if they have the appropriate reach and are of sufficient width I can recommend them unreservedly. If you intend to stay with 700C and tires in the 28-32mm range (i.e., this isn't going to be a 650B conversion) then these would probably be the best brakes you could put on the bike. I've got a set of RAIDs on my Kogswell P/R that use the Kool Stop Eagle 2 pad but the Racers have Mafac holders and Kool Stop 4-dot sucker pads, which work at least as well and are arguably more authentic in appearance. Mafac Racers already have a built-in quick release: you unhook the straddle cable. However, if you're going to use a rear hanger mounted on the seatpost bolt, why not use one with a built-in quick release?

Part of the refurbishment, along with cleaning, polishing and replacement of the red plastic bushings with brass these brakes have either Compass or home-made versions of their angled toe-in washers https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...e-washer-pair/ and the brakes do not squeal at all.

One major advantage for me with the Jack Taylor is that I can mount a TA rack on the brakes and can have a front rack without clamps on the fork blades or modifying the frame in any way. Since you're already modifying the frame with braze-on posts, you can use the Compass racks for mounting on centerpull brakes.

Can you think of one single reason why you shouldn't use the Mafac Racers?

jonwvara 

I really like Mafac Racers and Competitions. I have a pair of each on my two French bikes. But I'd use Dia-Compes on a Japanese bike, since I think they work just as well and seem more suitable from a "national origin" standpoint.


That would be my reason--but only on one of my own bikes. I wouldn't inflict it on anyone else.

palincss

You know, if we were talking about a Japanese national treasure like CS Hirose rather than a mass produced bike, then national origin of components might resonate more for me. But, when you do get to the elite level of Japanese constructeurs, surprise - you find French components and designs!

On a more practical level -- which matters here because poor braking performance is one of those things that can significantly alter your lifestyle or shorten your lifespan -- the Racers are much better brakes.

The Golden Boy 

Stylistically, I think the Eagle style canti pads are more suited for a circa 1990 or later MTB with V Brakes. I had them on an 86 Voyageur- they just didn't look right. As mentioned a couple of times above- Kool Stop makes inserts for most "vintage" pad holders. Otherwise, something like the "Cross Pads" would look better than the Eagles. I've got them on 2 bikes and love 'em.

I think this is the firs time I've read of someone not liking the look of Paul components!! I see people love them, and they might work very well, but I've always thought the Paul stuff is... lacking in the graceful elegance of most "classic" components. Just my opinion.


What makes the Racers better than Dia/Gran Compes? I'm not baiting or challenging- just interested.

johnnyace 

I'm officially ROFLMAO.

Well, at least I almost spewed my coffee on the monitor.

Salamandrine 

To me it's like Ford vs Chevy. They are mostly just different. MAFAC I'd say have a slight edge in perceived stopping power, though they are both good. Gran Compe are more solid feeling and have better modulation and control. MAFAC arms flex quite a bit more than Gran Compe, though this difference will be lessened if you do braze on mounts.

I think the stock pads were better on MAFAC, especially if you compare them to the base Dia Compe CP brakes. IIRC the Weinmann version had a bit better pads. I'd recommend you swap them out for modern Koolstop Dura pads regardless. Any old pads are going to be toast now anyway, MAFAC included.

After having used various versions of both brakes for years, I like both, but prefer the Weinmann/Gran Compe brakes.

For this bike the best choice IMO would be Gran Compe, either vintage or reissue, with koolstops.

jonwvara 

Does the "national treasure" level" differ from the "elite" level of Japanese constructeurs? If not, maybe Mafacs would be a good choice for a CS Hirose, too.

Sorry, just messing with you. I don't think it matters much which brakes a person chooses--the next owner can always remove them (with a little cry of horror) and replace them with what is to them the only obvious and correct choice.

I liked it better when we had that long discussion on whether the name should be written "Mafac" or "MAFAC."

Sorry for the digression from the original direction of this thread. Carry on!

gugie 

Good call on the Japanese. Earlier Japanese bikes clearly looked a lot more French than English or Italian.

Interested in your opinion of Racer vs, say Gran Comp centerpulls. Do they really stop better?

gugie 

Then there's M.A.F.A.C.

jonwvara 

Don't start!