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1987 cut-off? what defines C&V?

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1987 cut-off? what defines C&V?

Old 08-29-17, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fivethumbs
I guess we must agree to disagree. Every one of the innovations I mentioned were Japanese inventions and were available in the 80's prior to 1987 and yet none are allowed at L'Eroica. I have no idea why they chose 1987 as the cutoff date. It seems pretty arbitrary given the fact that so many pre-1987 component choices are prohibited.
L'Eroica began in 1997. I wouldn't be surprised if they lopped 10 years off the current year and figured that 1987 was as good a cut-off as any
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Old 08-30-17, 03:45 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Fivethumbs
Based on what I saw and heard in the cycling community during that time period is that at that point in time the Japanese component manufacturers began to eclipse Campagnolo in terms of function and cost Also, from what I heard the original L'Eroica people are hardcore Campyphiles. They remember with fondness a time when Italian steel bikes reigned and Campy was king. The mid-80s brought Japanese innovations such as Indexed shifting, aero brake levers, brakes with helper springs in the levers, the switch from freewheels to freehubs, and ski binding-type clipless pedals (invented by Look, very quickly licensed by Shimano). This may also help to explain why no clipless pedals are allowed except the Campy M71s.
Cinelli M71s, see attached and the original Look (PP65) pedal, developed by Bernard Hinault - he was a Director of Look at the time and saw the ski bindings and thought...

I bought a pair of these pedals-and still use them-in 1987. I also have new style Look pedals on my modern; SPDs are a no-no on a road bike...not for the purist.

The rules are of course arbitrary, e.g they don't allow aero brake cables (under the tape), but this treatment was around many years before 1987 - in the pro peloton (e.g Renault/Gitane) as well as in TT bikes here in England - there's much evidence.

Or is 1987 the cut-off simply because 1987 was the last year a TdeF was won with toe clips and straps - the great Stephen Roche, winner of the Triple Crown in that golden year.

Their rules though, John.
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Old 08-30-17, 05:20 AM
  #28  
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Old 08-30-17, 12:05 PM
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L'Eroica started, at least partly, as a protest manifestation against the paving of the white gravel roads - the now famous strade bianche - in Tuscany. Farmers found it increasingly difficult to get their heavy modern machinery to their fields, and during the eighties the gravel roads were paved over at such a rate that they would disappear if no-one intervened. Some people thought that would be a shame, and decided to protest.

The form that was chosen was a recreation of the heroic period of cycling, which began- at least for the Italians - in 1909 when the Giro d'Italia was first organized and sort of climaxed with the epic battles between Gino Bartali and Fausto Coppi during the immediate post-war years. During that period the strade bianche were an important part of the challenge that the riders faced during their races.

Giancarlo Brocci, the founder of the event, has stated in an interview that he wants the participants of the event to experience what their heroes BITD had to deal with: bad roads, basic materials and limited support. He wants them to get a real feeling of accomplishment if and when they managed to finish the ride. Bicycletimesmag.com put it nicely, when they stated:

"The start happens in the “French way”—that is to say, in small groups, and before the sun is fully up. Men and bicycles test one another on the roads, reminding us of an altogether more innocent age when human values were more important, and there was less consumerism and no headlong rush towards modernization and progress. The participants stick to the finer details of this period reconstruction, so that rather than swallow maltodextrin and other energy supplements, they drink wine and eat bread with cold meats and pecorino cheese, and they climb back into the saddle still chewing. Some more organized riders keep chunks of polenta in their pockets, wrapped in pieces of newspaper for snacking along the way."

I'm sure the purists would have found a cut-off date of 1960 more appropriate.

So no, L'Eroica is not about whether clipless pedals were available in 1987. A discussion about that is totally beside the point.

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Old 08-30-17, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fivethumbs
It seems pretty arbitrary
Correct.

But so what? Their party. Their rules. I don't go to synagogue expecting to hear about jc.
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Old 08-30-17, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
All I know is that it is really really fun trying to hang with the fast guys on a vintage group ride. Wheel sucking behind a group of old Bianchis and such and most of them 5 and 6 speed and then watching all the other beautiful bikes pass me by is a kick. Later in the ride, taking turns with a sloping top tube tigged 9 speed with indexing ON is not so much fun.
I will say though nothing is better then leaving a guy in the dust who's modern bike probably costs 20x as much as my bike lol

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Old 08-30-17, 05:52 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by berkeley23
pardon my ignorance, but I thought I would ask you kind BFers, since neither the googles nor BF search are answering my question(s):
what's with the 1987 cut-off for l'eroica? Is it just the date of when the ride started? Is it also the cut-off for classic & vintage? Is it inclusive of bikes made in 1987? does it have anything to do with friction vs. index shifting? advent of aluminum? what other questions haven't I asked that will get me the information I am after?

thanks in advance for increasing my c&v knowledge!
L'Eroica has been flexible with their cutoff. I believe when they started it was a strict "1983 or earlier" policy, period. Since then they've loosened up a bit. Most of this makes sense - there are some classic bikes that can't be dated to either 1983 or 1984, for example. Non-fixie gave a good description of the spirit of the race, and that's more important than a strict cutoff (and explains why they veto some bike innovations that came before 1987, but aren't in the spirit of the heroic age of riding).
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Old 08-30-17, 09:06 PM
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Well put, @non-fixie.
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Old 08-31-17, 05:58 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Well put, @non-fixie.
+1, excellent reply.
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Old 08-31-17, 11:35 AM
  #35  
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Well, I had actually put off that post a couple of times, because I do realize that for many Americans, bicycle racing history sort of starts in the 1980's with Greg Lemond coming onto the scene, who sort of kick-started the modern era.
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Old 08-31-17, 05:18 PM
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'Classic' or L'Eroica - for me at least - is a lugged steel frame with level toptube, non-index shifting, toe clips w/straps. Aero brake levers are pushing it (my '86 Miyata 710 has them as OEM) but acceptable. Ideally, the wheelset should be freewheel, not freehub/cassette. Brakes - do we exclude dual-pivot calipers?
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