Serendipper 

I will be joining the club as soon as it arrives in the post in two weeks.

I also plan to pull a Sheldon, and build a modern (probably Nexus, not Rohloff) hubbed, lightweight framed, reinerpretation of the Raleigh Superbe. I will likely use the new One-Way model as the basis, and switch the rear wheel from fixed gear to 3-speed hub depending on my mood.

A pair of North Road or Preacher bars, and a sprung Brooks and I'll be set. Already have a great wool suit with matching knickers.

nlerner

My approach was a bit different. Rather than retrofit a fairly heavy old 3-speed frame with lighter components, I retrofitted a relatively light, all-Reynolds 531 1971 Raleigh Competition frame with three speed components: 27" Weinmann rims w/ an alloy shell AW hub in the rear, Nitto Promenade bars, mtb levers, Weinmann steel-straddle centerpull brakes and Kool Stop pads, Bluemels Popular mudguards, Brooks saddle and Raleigh-badged saddlebag, front rack and basket. It's the bike I commute on most often.

Neal

apw55

Nice job!

I’d been toying with a Schwinn variation of this concept with one of the fillet-brazed frames (Sports Tourer, Superior or Super Sport) as a possible candidate. During my search, I came across an early (‘40’s) fillet brazed 3-speed frame and got distracted from the original idea. Maybe next year. Out of curiosity, do you know how much yours weighs?

I also like Serendipper’s concept of a modern (or at least, newly manufacturered) internal hub bike. The “One Way” looks like a great starting point with the one flaw that I see being the “track” dropouts. These are fine from an internal hub adjustability standpoint but will make fixing a flat a bit of a challenge due to the fenders. Maybe the short rear fender will make it possible to slide the wheel out but I wouldn’t count on it. If you go ahead with this project, please be sure to give us an update.

Regards,
Alan

wahoonc

Neal,
Nuthin' wrong with that one! I would love to do that but keep missing out on frames. I have a Moby frame that I am going to build up for now, in hopes of getting a genuine Raleigh frameset in the future.

Aaron

redneckwes

Sweet Ride!
I'm looking for a frame for the Schwinn based project now, have to see what turns up at the next flea-market.

nlerner

Alan, I haven't weighed it to be sure, but I'd say with the front basket & rack it's around 30lbs. Light enough to tote up my front steps to park it in the porch, anyway.

Neal

texbike

I recently picked up an old Peugeot that is a Huret-shifted three speed that is in really nice, very original condition. It complements my 1955 Raleigh Sports that was found about a year ago at a local garage sale. Other than the seat and tires, the Raleigh is all original.

The Peugeot hasn't been on a long ride yet due to the need for a regrease of the bottom bracket, but the Raleigh has been out for a number of pub crawls and sponsored, themed rides. Both are a blast to ride, but the Raleigh is suprisingly more maneuverable.

The Raleigh is ready for a set of tires. Any suggestions on a good, reasonably priced 26 X 1 3/8 inch tire?

Cheers,

Texbike

Sigurdd50

here's a cool one (no affiliation)
Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed

apw55

To my knowledge there are only four brands readily available in the U.S. and I've tried two, Kenda and Continental. I haven't noticed a significant performance difference but the Continental is more of a "slick" than the Kenda, so if your riding is on clean, smoothly paved roads, the Continental may have some edge but if you tend to ride on sandy shoulders or dirt roads, you may get better grip with the Kenda. The Kenda is definately cheaper.

Regards,
Alan

apw55

That's pretty light, given the basket, bag, etc. I'm guessing that mine is in the 35lbs range which is a considerably less than the electro-forged version (I have a '67 Racer). The frame and fork are chrome moly but I don't think it's butted. I'm still keeping an eye out for a Tourist version of the Paramount (I've seen one, ever).

Regards,
Alan

nlerner

Looks like you can get Cheng Shin's at a very cheap price (less than $6 ea but only 2 left!) through Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Cheng-Shin-Rai.../dp/B000C17HBM. I bought Specialized Tri Sports in that size about a year or so ago, and they were decent enough. I've also bought muy expensivo Schwalbe creamwalls in 590 size. A beautiful tire (and I bought them direct from Schwalbe via their website).

Neal

jordanb

Conti makes a tire for the standard "british" 26 x 1 & 38th but only kenda makes a 26 x 1 & 3/8ths "To fit Schwinn S-6 rims."

It took me quite a while trying to figure out why the tire didn't fit when I first discovered that there's a difference.

randya

The two three speeds I'm riding right now are my 1975 Raleigh 20 folder and a 1969 Schwinn Stingray Stardust. I had a Dunelt 26" three speed and a 26" Raleigh three speed with a dynohub for a while and I regret selling both of them.

I-Like-To-Bike

Bought new in Germany in 1999 for about $200 and used there for 3 1/2 years for commuting and for around town utility in the US for the past 4 years. Sachs Torpedo 3 speed with coaster. Works like a charm in all weather, in all conditions.

Serendipper 

A guy just offered me a Raleigh Sports, really beat up cosmetically, but decent mechanically speaking. ( I rode it around the block today...FUN BIKE, faster than I expected with a really strong low gear...pleasant surprise)

He kept going on about how it was "top of the line" and a "classic", so he wanted no less than $150.00 for it.

I told him that no one would pay that much for what amounts to an old pitted chrome clunker in the eye of the beholder, but that I would rescue and overhaul it for the right price.

He responds with " I really would like to see it fixed up....when you're ready to buy it make me an offer."

How much should I offer him for it?

jordanb

^-- Around here, maybe $70. Depends on how rusted it is.

Serendipper 

No rust, just pitted chrome -not too bad-.

I was thinking $65-80...so thanks.

I'll probably pick it up this weekend if someone doesn't snipe it.

Mos6502

Oh you so you got that Ross - I almost bid on that one. I've always wanted a Ross, but then that bright orange Phillips showed up so I took that instead. The seller has yet to contact me with the pickup location though... getting a bit antsy.

texbike

Hmmmm. What IS the difference between the British and Schwinn 26 X 1 3/8 tires? Should I be looking for the former for the Raleigh? Will I have an ill-fitting tire if I purchase a "Schwinn approved" 26 X 1 3/8? I was looking at a Kenda K40 in the 26 X 1 3/8 (EA3, 590 mm). Is this a correct size for the older Raleigh Sports?

Thanks for the help!

Texbike

Little Darwin

Once Sheldon Brown's site is back online, he has a good page to identify tire and wheel matches.

The Kenda will work for the Raleigh (I just hecked my sport). I believe that 590 is good for any 26 X 1 3/8 except for Schwinn.

jwc

I ride this one to work on occassion. It was my Dad's bike. He left it with me when he moved to Alabama back in 1996. He passed away in 2004 and I pulled it out of storage. I never appreciated the bike until then. He had bought it new in Georgia (the hub is dated 12/78). As usual for him, he had them install a speedometer on it. He evidently never rode it though. The odometer only read nine miles. The bike was in almost perfect condition, but the handle bars were terribly pitted. I replaced them, the brake pads, lubed everything, and then got a lesson on adjusting a three speed hub...online from Sheldon Brown's site.

I just can't decide if I want to replace the original vinyl seat with a Brooks. I don't really ride it enough to justify the purchase, but I think the bike would have better "curb" appeal.

Pompiere

The schwinn has a 597 mm bead diameter instead of 590 mm. Schwinn tires tend to blow off of non-Schwinn (British) rims. Non-Schwinn tires usually cannot fit on schwinn rims.

I-Like-To-Bike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Darwin

Once Sheldon Brown's site is back online, he has a good page to identify tire and wheel matches.

The Kenda will work for the Raleigh (I just hecked my sport). I believe that 590 is good for any 26 X 1 3/8 except for Schwinn.

by Sheldon "ISO/E.T.R.T.O." Brown

(This article is also available in Russian.)

Tire Sizing Charts:
Inch Based Systems: Metric Based Sizing Systems:
Decimal Fractional French ISO/E.T.R.T.O.

Dishonest Sizing | Fractional vs Decimal Sizing | The ISO/E.T.R.T.O. System

Traditional Sizing Systems | Width Compatibility | WTB's Global Measuring System

Which Size Tire Fits Which Size Rim?

Bicycle tires come in a bewildering variety of sizes. To make matters worse, in the early days of cycling, every country that manufactured bicycles developed its own system of marking the sizes. These different national sizing schemes created a situation in which the same size tire would be known by different numbers in different countries. Even worse, different-sized tires that were not interchangeable with one another were often marked with the same numbers!

Traditional Sizing Systems

The traditional sizing systems are based on a measurement of the outside diameter of a tire. This would usually be measured in inches (26", 27", etc.) or millimeters (650, 700, etc.).

Unfortunately, evolution of tires and rims has made these measurements lose contact with reality. Here's how it works: Let's start with the 26 x 2.125 size that became popular on heavyweight "balloon tire" bikes in the late '30's and still remains common on "beach cruiser" bikes. This size tire is very close to 26 inches in actual diameter. Some riders, however were dissatisfied with these tires, and wanted something a bit lighter and faster. The industry responded by making "middleweight" tires, marked 26 x 1.75 to fit the same rims. Although they are still called "26 inch", these tires are actually 25 5/8", not 26". This same rim size was adopted by the early pioneers of west-coast "klunkers", and became the standard for mountain bikes. Due to the appetite of the market, you can get tires as narrow as 25mm to fit these rims, so you wind up with a "26 inch" tire that is more like 24 7/8" in actual diameter!

A second number or letter code would indicate the width of the tire. (26 x 1.75, 27 x 1 1/4...650B, 700C...)

Does Point Seven Five Equal Three Quarters?

Note that the inch-based designations sometimes express the width in a decimal (26 x 1.75) and sometimes as a common fraction (26 x 1 3/4). This is the most common cause of mismatches. Although these size designations are mathematically equal, they refer to different size tires, which are NOT interchangeable. It is dangerous to generalize when talking about tire sizing, but I would confidently state the following:



Brown's Law Of Tire Sizing:


If two tires are marked with sizes that are mathematically equal,
but one is expressed as a decimal and the other as a fraction,
these two tires will not be interchangeable.

Dishonesty in Sizing

Competitive pressures have often led to inaccuracy in width measurement. Here's how it works: Suppose you are in the market for a high performance 700 x 25 tire; you might reasonably investigate catalogues and advertisements to try to find the lightest 700-25 available. If the Pepsi Tire Company and the Coke Tire Company had tires of equal quality and technology, but the Pepsi 700-25 was actually a 700-24 marked as a 25, the Pepsi tire would be lighter than the accurately-marked Coke 700-25. This would put them at a competitive advantage. In self defense, Coke would retaliate by marketing an even lighter 700-23 labeled as a 700-25.

This scenario prevailed throughout the '70's and '80's. The situation got so out-of-hand that cooler heads have prevailed, and there is a strong (but not universal) trend toward accurate width measurements.


The ISO (E.T.R.T.O.) System:

ISO, the International Organization for Standardization has developed a universal tire sizing system that eliminates this confusion. (This system was formerly known as the "E.T.R.T.O." system, developed by the European Tyre and Rim Technical Organization.)

The ISO system uses two numbers; the first is the width of the tire or rim in millimeters (The actual tire width will vary a bit depending on the width of the rim. The rim width is measured between the flanges.)

The second ISO number is the critical one, it is the diameter of the bead seat of the rim, in mm. Generally, if this number matches, the tire involved will fit onto the rim; if it doesn't match, the tire won't fit.

For example, a 700 x 20 C road tire would be a 20-622; a 700 x 38 hybrid tire would be a 38-622. The width difference between these sizes would make them less-than ideal replacements for one another, but any rim that could fit one of them would work after a fashion with the other.

The following is a partial listing of traditional tire sizes that are sometimes seen in the U.S., with their ISO bead seat equivalents.

Fractional sizes:

Fractional ISO Applications
28 x 1 1/2 635 mm Rod-brake roadsters
27 x anything 630 mm Older road bikes
26 x 1 (650C) 571 mm Triathlon, time trial, small road bikes
26 x 1 1/4 597 mm Older British sport & club bikes
26 x 1 3/8 (S-6) 597 mm Schwinn "lightweights"
26 x 1 3/8 (E.A.3) 590 mm Most 3-speeds, department-store or juvenile 10 speeds
26 x 1 1/2 (650B) 584 mm French utility, tandem and loaded-touring bikes, a very few Raleigh (U.S.) & Schwinn mountain bikes.
26 x 1 3/4 (S-7) 571 mm Schwinn cruisers
24 x 1 520 mm High performance wheels for smaller riders; Terry front
24 x 1 1/8 520 mm or 540 mm! Caveat emptor!
24 x 1 1/4 547 mm British or Schwinn Juvenile
24 x 1 3/8 (S-5) 547 mm Schwinn Juvenile lightweights
24 x 1 3/8 (E-5) 540 mm British Juvenile, most wheelchairs
20 x 1 1/8, 20 x 1 ¼, 20 x 1 3/8 451 mm Juvenile lightweights, BMX for light riders, some recumbents
20 x 1 3/4 419 mm Schwinn juvenile
17 x 1 1/4 369 mm Alex Moulton
16 x 1 3/8 349 mm Older Moulton, juvenile
16 x 1 3/8 337 mm Mystery tire
16 x 1 3/8 335 mm Polish juvenile
16 x 1 3/4 317 mm Schwinn Juvenile
12 1/2 x anything 203 mm Juvenile, scooters
10 x 2 152 mm Wheelchair
8 x 1 1/4 137 mm Wheelchair

Traditionally, fractional sizes are made for straight-sided rims.
High-performance sizes (571 mm /26 x 1 & 630 mm /27") have evolved toward hook-edged rims.

Decimal sizes:

Decimal ISO Applications
26 x 1.00 through 2.3 559 mm Most Mountain bikes, cruisers, etc. except:
26 x 1.25 (rare) 599 mm Very old U.S. lightweights
26 x 1.375 599 mm Very old U.S. lightweights
24 x 1.5-24 x 2.125 507 mm Juvenile mountain bikes, cruisers
22 x 1.75, 22 x 2.125 457 mm Juvenile
20 x 1.5-20 x 2.125 406 mm Most BMX, juvenile, folders, trailers, some recumbents
18 x 1.75-18 x 2.125 355 mm Juvenile
16 x 1.75-16 x 2.125 305 mm Juvenile, folders, trailers, some recumbents

French sizes:

In the French system, the first number is the nominal diameter in mm, followed by a letter code for the width: "A" is narrow, "D" is wide. The letter codes no longer correspond to the tire width, since narrow tires are often made for rim sizes that originally took wide tires; for example, 700 C was originally a wide size, but now is available in very narrow widths, with actual diameters as small as 660 mm.

French Size ISO Applications
700 C 622 mm Road bikes, hybrids.
700 D 587 mm Oddball size formerly used on some GT models.
650 A 590 mm French version of 26 x 1 3/8; Italian high-performance bikes for smaller riders
650 B 584 mm French utility bikes, tandems, and loaded-touring bikes; some older Raleigh and Schwinn mountain bikes
650 C 571 mm Triathlon, time trial, high performance road bikes for smaller riders
600 A 540 mm European Juvenile road bikes, most wheelchairs
550 A 490 mm European Juvenile road bikes
500 A 440 mm European Juvenile, folding
450 A 390 mm European Juvenile
400 A 340 mm European Juvenile

ISO Cross Reference:

ISO Bead Seat Diameter Traditional Designations
635 mm 28 x 1 1/2
630 mm 27 x anything
622 mm 700 C
599 mm 26 x 1.25, x 1.375
597 mm 26 x 1 1/4, 26 x 1 3/8 (S-6)
590 mm 26 x 1 3/8 (E.A.3), 650 A
587 mm 700 D
584 mm 650B, 26 x 1 1/2
571 mm 26 x 1, 26 x 1 3/4, 650 C
559 mm 26 x 1.00- x 2.125
547 mm 24 x 1 1/4, 24 x 1 3/8 (S-5)
540 mm 24 x 1 1/8, 24 x 1 3/8 (E.5), 600 A
520 mm 24 x 1, 24 x 1 1/8
507 mm 24 x 1.5- x 2.125
490 mm 550 A
457 mm 22 x 1.75; x 2.125
451 mm 20 x 1 1/8; x 1 1/4; x 1 3/8
440 mm 500 A
419 mm 20 x 1 3/4
406 mm 20 x 1.5- x 2.125
390 mm 450 A
369 mm 17 x 1 1/4
355 mm 18 x 1.74- x 2.125
349 mm 16 x 1 3/8
340 mm 400 A
337 mm 16 x 1 3/8
317 mm 16 x 1 3/4
305 mm 16 x 1.75- x 2.125
203 mm 12 1/2 X anything.
152 mm 10 x 2
137 mm 8 x 1 1/4

Most of this information was compiled by John Allen for Sutherland's Handbook For Bicycle Mechanics, the bible of bicycle technology. Sutherland's has a more detailed, more thorough version of this chart.

Width Considerations

Although you can use practically any tire/rim combination that shares the same bead seat diameter, it is unwise to use widely disparate sizes.

If you use a very narrow tire on a wide rim, you risk pinch flats and rim damage from road hazards.

If you use a very wide tire on a narrow rim, you risk sidewall or rim failure. This combination causes very sloppy handling at low speeds. Unfortunately, current mountain-bike fashion pushes the edge of this. In the interest of weight saving, most current mountain bikes have excessively narrow rims. Such narrow rims work very poorly with wide tires, unless the tires are overinflated...but that defeats the purpose of wide tires, and puts undue stress on the rim sidewalls.

Georg Boeger has kindly provided a chart showing recommended width combinations:

Which tire fits safely on which rim? Rim width (interior)
Rim Tire Width [all dimensions in millimeters]
Width 18 20 23 25 28 32 35 37 40 44 47 50 54 57
13 X X X X
15 X X X X
17 X X X X X
19 X X X X X X
21 X X X X X X
23 X X X X
25 X X X X X

The current industry standard for specifying the actual inflated size of a bicycle tire does not account for subtle variation in tread and casing size. To address this problem and provide you with more information for comparing tires, WTB has introduced the Global Measuring System (GMS) for tire measurement.

The GMS uses a two-number system: the first number is the width of the casing, and the second number is the width of the tread, both in millimeters. These measurements are taken on a rim which is 20mm wide at the bead-capturing point, with a tire inflated to 60psi and maintained for 24 hours.

In addition to being able to accurately size a tire, knowing the actual casing size and tread width provides an indication of air volume, tread characteristics and tread contact area; all of which provide you with a more concise idea of what ride characteristics to expect from each of WTB's tires.
E-Mail: CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com
Updated Wednesday, December 16, 1998 5:13 PM

The URL is: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing

Sir Lunch-a-lot

JWC... that bike is georgeous! Beautiful!


Anyway, I ride a three speed hub as well. My good old frankenbike! https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/174795-3speed-6speed.html

During the summer, I managed to get a larger rear sprocket and increase it from 16 teeth to 18 teeth. I was living in a hilly part of Alberta at the time, and needed something that could handle hills a bit better, and it made a big difference. I would go for an even bigger sprocket, seeing as how the top gears are too high for my liking, but I am worried that there would be too much torque, and I would wreck the hub. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, though. If I am wrong, maybe someday I'll get a lower geared front crank set. I also got a bunch of other odds and ends added to it. So far, I love this bike! Other than problems cobbling together a "new" shifting cable for it (the old one snapped, so I had to use parts of the old and a new cable to build one that would be compatible. I am thinking that I'll have to keep my eyes open for the next police auctions so that I may get some proper parts). It rides pretty nicely in it's lower gears.

I am thinking that at the end of the school year, when I go home, I should strip it down, and repaint her... something like... Candy apple red, kind of like JWC's bike... but at that time, I'll want to find more proper parts in order to make stipping it down worth my while. We'll see. Maybe I'll just be too lazy, and leave it. I've got plenty of time to decide.

Anyway, I decided to go the 3 speed route because I got sick and tired of all the problems I was having with deraileur based systems (although, it probably doesn't help that they were all old and used deraileurs I was installing). Other than cable troubles, my 3 speed works beautifully!

jwc

Thanks. I just rode it down to the post office, over to a friend's house, then to the store. The old girl always surprises me. It was breezy out, but the bike remained stable and comfortable to ride, even into the wind.

It took a couple of weekends to clean it up and grease it, and repair it. The wheels were really nasty and I had trouble figuring out how to clean them. I was ready to give up and order new wheels, when I decided to try a product called "BarKeepers Helper" that my wife uses on her stainless pots and pans. It is like Comet, but doesn't scratch. The wheels cleaned up and shined like new with only a couple of small rust pits...small enough that I have to search for them.

Highly recommend "Barkeepers Helper" for any chrome you need to do some heavy clean up on. Always check it out first on a small or hidden area, just to be sure it won't damage anything though. I wouldn't even have thought to try it this time except that I figured I didn't have anything to lose.