DerekRI

I recently came across a Schwinn Parmount track bike for sale at a LBS by a customer of theirs. The frame is in great shape (repainted, with one small chip), and is a great fit to me. A lot of the original parts are gone, but were replaced with some very high end (phil, dura-ace, etc) modern parts. I haven't discussed a specific price yet, but the owner supposedly said he'd sell for around 1200-1500 fully built. This sounds like a great deal to me, but I have very limited knowledge on these bikes, and would like some reassurance. Any info/insight is greatly appreciated. TIA!

luker

Track bikes always bring a looooot of money, for some reason. There isn't a velodrome within a day's drive of where I live, and riding the streets around here without brakes sounds suicidal, but, for whatever reason, they bring a looooot of money. This sounds like a nice bike, and there were never a lot of Paramount track bikes - it also sounds like you're at the retail end of the deal.

More particularly, there were a wide range of Paramount models throughout the years, and a corresponding range of value. You need to divulge the serial number and post a picture, there are Paramount experts here (scooper?) who will know exactly what you've got.

prodigal son

It depends on the components.

DerekRI

the bike is a 76 waterford paramount track frame. it was redone by waterford 4 years ago, and looks pristine, with the exception of one nick on the seat stay. they redid the original paint, and the original decals. it has a campy seatpost, a carbon fork, a ti stem, a dt swiss front hub wheel, a phil wood hub rear, both with mavics, track chain, chris king headset, dura ace brake caliper, and dura ace cranks/chainring. along with this, im also getting the original fork, and a salsa stem. like i said, none of the parts on the bike are cheap. For all this he's asking 1500.

Scooper

Great bike!

The Waterford website has a great history of the Paramount at https://www.waterfordbikes.com/2005/d...ount/index.php.

If it's a '76, it was probably built either at the Chicago Schwinn factory or contract built by Don Mainland and Roger Nelson in Racine, WI. There's really no way to tell from the serial number whether it's Wisconsin built or built at the Schwinn factory.

Ed Schwinn shut down Paramount production in 1979 because the tooling, lugs and tubing had all become dated. Marc Muller joined Schwinn in late 1978, and was put in charge of rebuilding the Paramount line in June, 1980, but production would have to be moved from the Chicago factory. The move to Waterford was either in 1981 or 1982, I believe. Neither the 1980 nor 1981 Schwinn catalogs had Paramounts, but the 1982 catalog introduced "the all new custom-tailored Paramount".

After the 1993 bankruptcy, Marc Muller, Richard Schwinn, and George Garner bought the Waterford facility and started Waterford Precision Cycles.

The 1976 Professional Track Paramount, P14, sold for $375, The P15 Deluxe Touring Paramount sold for $625, and the P13 Professional Road Racing Paramount sold for $660.

My father had a P14 that I rode on tracks in north Florida in the late 50s as a teenager. It was a wonderful machine.

DerekRI

Thanks for the info, Scooper! I'm looking forward to hopping on this thing!

EDIT: Also, that bike in the picture you posted is the color of the one I've been looking at. Beautiful!

DerekRI

Well, I bit the bullet and picked the bike up. So far, I'm loving it. The bars and pedals are only temporary until I pick up some new stuff, but so far the bike rides like a dream! If anyone has any info on those older dura-ace cranks, I'd be interested in hearing it! Thanks for the help.

luker

Beautiful. Great finish. The cranks are the first release Dura Ace EX.

DerekRI

How are these cranks comparable to the Campy stuff from the era? I wouldn't mind trying to get the original equipment back on this bike, if I could find it.

2manybikes

Beautiful bike! Did you squeeze past a couple of bikes going the other way on the Washington bridge about a week ago? One of them was me.

luker

campy and dura ace cranks are nearly equivalent (gasp!) imho. Dura Ace has a smaller bolt pattern so you can go down to a 39 ring. finish and general quality are very similar, with campy probably having a little edge (although I don't recall ever seeing a broken dura ace, and I've seen lots of broken Campy's).

DerekRI

I live in Rhode Island 2manybikes, so that wasn't me

luker, thanks again for the info!

2manybikes

Me too, the Washington bridge is the highway bridge with the bike /walking path on it that goes from near India Point Park in Providence to East Providence. I pulled over and a few guys On fixies went by, one of the bikes looked just like yours but I'm not sure. I could not read the lettering but it had the chrome stays just like yours.

DerekRI

Ah, sorry, I didn't see your location and assumed you were talking about the george washington in NY hah... sorry, I'm a bit tired

But no, still wasn't me. I do the bike path down here quite often (kingston station, to wakefield) but I haven't brought this bike up there yet! I do want to see that path though.

Scooper

If you're going to do any off-track riding, I'd strongly recommend taking Luker's advice and retrofitting it with brakes.

2manybikes

That's OK, I really did not give you any hints either. I get down there once in a while too. Have not seen any fixies down there, ever.

BostonFixed

Considering the closest track to him is in NYC, I think he is going to be doing quide a bit of off track riding with it.

Haven't you heard? The new fad is to ride brakeless track bikes on the street.

The campy sticker near the 531 sticker doesn't really make sense with the current componetry.

I assume it was had a full campy track group to begin with?

techone

catalogue pic from 1982...

BCD should be 151, same as pre 1972 (i think) Campy.
I have a set and love them. Really stiff and very robust compared to most cranks of that style/age I've used.
If I can get a set of Campy cranks, I'll trade ya!

Scooper

Yikes! Here in San Francisco with our hills, that would courting disaster.


Yes, that's right. The crankset was Campy Record Pista with 50 tooth chainwheel and the rear was Campy fixed gear with a 16 tooth sprocket. Hubs were Campy Record Pista large flange.

luker

to clarify - that looks to me like a Dura Ace road crankset - not a 151, but a 130. You can confirm that its a road crank because there'll be a little ledge on the inside of each crankarm, where the inner ring sits. Pista cranks are flattened without a place to put an inner ring.

BostonFixed

You haven't seen many brakeless track bikes around SF?

From what I hear/see/read that is the epicenter of the brakeless track bike hipster phenomenon.

Scooper

Well, yeah, I've seen some but not many. To each his own, I guess.

If you're hell bent on competing for the Darwin award I guess it's OK, unless you get caught:

California Vehicle Code 21201. (a) No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

el twe

You can argue that the rear wheel works as a brake. Assuming you know how to skip/skid...

luker

brakes don't really help you out in situations that you generate - they help you out in avoiding situations that others generate for you. That garbage truck in the alley that just doesn't see you because the driver is still pissed about what his wife said when he left this morning...he is gonna create a situation for you. You gonna need a brake to stop - and no fixie is gonna stop as fast without as with. But - 97.5 percent of the time you don't need a brake...97.5 percent of the time your kids don't need seatbelts.

Scooper

If it were my bike and I wanted to ride it on the road, I think I might consider (a little heresy here) replacing the rear hub/sprocket with a coaster brake. At least you could stop when you have to and wouldn't ruin the track bike looks with caliper brakes, cables, and levers.