beaverstuff

Hi, I've just been bitten by a different kind of bike bug. I'm an engineer and have taken a fancy to shaft-drive or chainless bicycle propulsion. I don't care for the downward sloping top tube of contemporary bikes. I'm a tall guy who needs a large frame. The ones I've seen on Google-Imaging are all museum pieces. A single-speed bike would be OK. Talk to me folks! Does anyone have a shaft-drive bike for me?

luker

Shaft-drive was Pope's solution for saving the crashing bicycle industry in the 1890's. Pope was a marketing whiz, and several other companies jumped on the bandwagon -
the new approach to making a bike go didn't save the industry, but the style hung on until the twenties (and still hangs on today, a little. I've seen a few modern beasts, although I couldn't point you to a website).

While the technology has several advantages, like, um, it is cleaner for the rider...it has several drawbacks that keep it in the weird bike category. The gears wear, increasing the energy required to keep the thing in motion. This could probably be addressed today with better materials. The setup generally turned out to be a little heavier than chain and cogs. Because the drive-side chainstay was usually replaced with a drive mechanism, the other parts of the rear triangle had to be made heavier to make up for the missing structural member. They were a little harder to work on. And of course, multiple gearing nowadays would present some additional hurdles.

The book "The Bicycle" makes all of these points much better than me. All of that whining aside, you could probably make a shaft drive bike without needing a mountain of money. A custom frame is gonna be a requirement, so, say $2k to a good frame builder who might want to experiment with this...you could find an expert machinist who could build the drive system and bevel gears (or something else?) out of modern materials for maybe another $1k...and parts out of your parts bin would get you rolling. So...for the cost of a good performance bike you'd have the coolest, one-off single speed on the planet. I know a machinist who would probably enjoy the challenge.

go for it. post us some pictures.

RegularGuy

There are shaft-drive bicycles commercially available. The ones I have seen are heavy, cruiser style bikes. I rode one at the Chicago Bike Show this year. It was kind of fun. There was a disconcerting pause between pushing the pedals and moving forward. I don't remember the brand name.

www.dynamicbicycles.com is one manufacturer.

luker

Geez, I love ad men. The copy on that website is something else. Gotta look out for "sharp spokes" on conventional bikes.

Ad Copy aside, it looks like a reasonable approach - but I think that the gear lash would get to be great in very little time with aluminum gears...and as I recall, setting lash on bevel gears is an order of magnitude greater than adjusting cable length.

number6

I can imagine it now, owner to mechanic- my bike "whines", just like my old chevy...

I have an older Bicycle Science book that reviews this and many other new ideas that turn up from time to time, hard to do anything new. The turn of the century, (earlier one) was a busy time for inventors of bicycle ideas.

2manybikes

The shaft drive bikes are heavier, slower (less efficient), harder to change a flat. Not well weather sealed. You are limited to an internally geared hub that adds to the inefficiency of the whole bike. OK for a 55 hp motorcycle, terrible for a 250 watt bicycle.

Search the forums for "shaft drive bike" threads.
Use google to find new ones for sale. They come on all kinds of bikes.

You can buy the shaft drive units seperate to add to your bike, but you have to add a geared hub.

beaverstuff

Reply to Luker,
You comment: "Geez, I love ad men. The copy on that website is something else. Gotta look out for "sharp spokes" on conventional bikes."
Yeah, I wondered about the same statement. Are their spokes all that different???
I didn't believe the comments about efficiency, either, especially with the additional weight.
Jim

Guz

I volunteer at a community bike program here in AZ called Handlebar Helpers: https://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/Assistance/handlebar/

A shaft drive bike has been sitting there for sale for a few years. I believe it is actually owned by one of the staff members. It looks to be from the '80s and probably German made. Other than that I don't know anything about it. If you're interested, your best bet is to call the number listed on the website, they are open from 2:30pm to 5:30pm Mountain time.

ofofhy

I think whoever wrote that has no idea about the proper names for bicycle components. I think the "sharp teeth on the spokes" of which they speak is actually the teeth on the chainring. Yeah, I would buy a bike from people who seem to have no bike knowledge.

Here's my favorite quote... These bikes are, "...tough enough to live in a frat house..."

cudak888 

Surrrrrrre. They'll have the handlebar twisted into a pretzel in 5 seconds.

But they won't be able to bend the frame, no sir, cause it's made from Schwinn Approved Gas Pipe Tubing!

-Kurt

beaverstuff

To All:
I didn't think I was hosting a gala for comics, but, here we are . . . enjoy folks!

cudak888 

Top 10 Reasons Shaft Drive Bikes Are Better

1. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
2. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
3. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
4. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
5. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
6. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
7. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
8. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
9. No Dangerously Sharp Spokes
10. Did we mention that you won't get your pants torn in "normal" bicycle's Dangerously Sharp Spokes?

Coming Soon To A Movie Theater Near You:

The Revenge Of The Dangerously Sharp Spokes

P.S.: Shaft-drive bikes can't do this...

-Kurt

MichaelW

Chain guards and chaincases as found on any decent city bike provide sufficient protection.
You can shaft drive units from
https://www.sussex.com.tw/index.html
and more info at
https://www.commuterbicycle.com/

cudak888 

Fully agreed. Count me in as a firm believer (and user, with my '79 DL-1) of chaincases, especially.

-Kurt

Artkansas 

You might try these fellows. I think in finding a modern bike without a downward slope, you'll have to go really high end. But something like this might give you all the hardware you need at a reasonable price.
https://webbicycle.com/bikes/

beaverstuff

You guys are gonna give shaft-drive bikes a bad name. Shame on you! May you all be condemned to ride those sharp-spoked, more-efficient, single-speed, shaft-drive bicycles the rest of your days.
PS: a cycling friend of mine suggested that if I still had a problem with high cost, as suggested by Luker, and still wanted a chainless bicycle, I could alter any current bicycle I owned with the application of a hack-saw.
Da Beaver

MikeV

Here's a dumb question from a non-engineer-type: Have they ever tried using a bar linked between pedal sprocket and the rear axle sprocket/gears that would move similar to what was used between the pistons and the big drive wheels on a Steam Locomotive?

sykerocker 

If memory serves me correctly, go to the L.L. Bean catalog. They either sell a shaft drive bike, or only dropped it from the catalog recently.

monogodo

My wife's shaft drive bike, a Biomega Amsterdam, purchased new earlier this year:


The drivetrain:


I rode it this past Monday. It was comfortable to ride, and has a much more upright position than my bikes. I noticed no delay between pedaling and going. It does weigh quite a bit, and I got more of a work out on it than on any of my bikes. The only thing that was hard to get used to was the shifting. The twist shifter rotates opposite from what I expected it to, and it was easier to shift while not pedaling.

stronglight

I suppose you could try that, and even use carbon fiber for the pulling rods, but it seems like it would require a great amount of torque to get it started up if the crank were not set in a perfect position to take maximum advantage of a down stroke. Might also require another set on the left side of the bike to balance everything out... like on a locomotive. Old steam engines were never known for blazing acceleration from a standing stop, even when not pulling additional cars.

Maybe that would work better as a recumbent bike set-up, but with an oar-rowing mechanism on a wheeled platform rather than pedals. I'd actually love to see a recumbent tandem or triplet set up like THAT!

Imagine a sleek streamlined bicycle-skull pulling down the roadside! [stroke... strole... stroke...]

WNG

Our generous Mr. Burgos who has provided us with scans of Miyata catalogs...happens to be a distributor of shaft drive bikes.

https://www.oxfordchainless.com/

Why not give a fellow C&V BF member your patronage? Worth checking out. He's in Toronto, CDN

Sixty Fiver

Dynamic sells shaft drive bikes and a friend of mine purchased one.

His initial experience was not good and he had to replace the drive several times under warranty (which he says was excellent).

He discovered a flaw in the design which was basically the lack of a frame / bb stop to prevent him from flexing the driveshaft under high loads... he machined and installed a stop and the problem seems to be fixed.

I took the bike (an mtb) for a test ride and was pleased with how smooth the bike shifted (it uses a 7 speed Nexus hub) and understood that this was a bike designed more for recreational than sport riding amd for that purpose I believe it would work very well.

tcs

When you consider how very little pavement there was in the 1890s, the fact that for most riders bicycles were practical transportation and not sporting toys back then, and the fact that 1890s chain manufacture was a long way from the wonderful light, low friction chains we accept as a given today, and the conclusion is the shaft drive was hardly a marketing gimmick in those days.

Uh, in the 1890s the US bike industry was booming.

TCS

bbattle

Check the Recreational and Family Biking forum. Some threads and info. there.

Eagle Kammback

I had a small one I pulled out of a dumpster (Proud to be a Dumpster Diver) but I think my mom threw it out