cyclezen

pretty nice lookin 58 ctc, batavus frame on ebay - here's the listing
a very nice condition CIOCC, 58 cm, full equip, mostly NR - here's the CIOCC listing
spposedly a 76 Masi, SLX, Mid 80's fork crown and bridgework, blurry incomplete pics - a lot of smoke and mirrors goin on...here's the listing anyway
2 other more realistically described Masis - one already up to $1400 bid.

don't know what a BRUNO STRADA 59.5 CM is, looks like recent-ish paint. Short point lugwork with little evidence of handwork and feathering - makes it seem like another italian's attempt to cash in on the late 70's bike boom. I think building frames in Italy was the equivalent of 'homespun' in Gandhi's India.
here's that link

finally a 50s claude BUtler - interesting here's the listing

but sadly no real Cinellis today...

masi61

Its kind of odd that the Masi listing never shows a decent photo of the complete frame. Nuovo Stradas aren't the most sought after Masis....

boozergut

I am little leery of sellers without a lot of history. I must say though that I picked up a 1983 batavus road bike on Ebay recently and I am shocked as to how light the bike is.

luker

Matteo's Faliero Masi will be fun to watch - 7203727727

That is a beautiful bike, and it is gonna go up to the heartstopping range, I predict. (I didn't know that campy even made super record derailleurs that early...)

masi61

I'm not sure which auction you're talking about, the ebay number you provided was for a custom Waterford frame which I saw referenced on another post earlier today.

luker

sorry - gotta clear the cut and paste buffer sometimes...7203723025 is the right number.

lotek 

damn, and the provenance is impeccable,
the seller is well known on CR.
why are they all too big for me?

marty

number6

Go to the auction on the champagne one, click through all the linked pages with images, then tell me what you see. Best work?

TheOtherGuy

Probably not his best work, but I'd bet some of Faliero's last work. I guess that's what you got if you wanted Faliero to build your frame, at that later stage in his life. It would appear that one was made around the time (or shortly after) that Masi California was a new operation, and the workmanship looks similar to one of my Masi, which was built right after the Carlsbad Masi operation first opened. According to local Masi expert (and former employee), mine was surely built or handled by both Faliero and Mario (who else in '73?), though mine looks better (cleaner work) than that one on eBay.

Work of the old man?:

number6

That's the image that shows less than stellar. The auction does state that Falerio supervized the construction, Masi vocabulary for contracted. Which is fine, just if these were only for the select few, then would not pride cause the file to be drawn a few more times?

So you have an S bike... an A57?

TheOtherGuy

I'm not so sure that Faliero didn't do that himself... If he was so concerned that it really look perfect, why not just have Mario build the whole thing in Carlsbad?
Yup; got one of the "1S" frames. I'm told they (the 1S bunch of 25 or so) were all "A57" size. Mine also isn't as pretty as the later frames were, but from what I understand, the shop was a bit behind in filling their first orders, and in a hurry to get that first lot out the door...

number6

I have information. Said to be a contracted frame, so perhaps the better question would be did the contractors deliver the frames bare or painted?

jhota

i actually know this frame. it's not mine, btw. but the guy that owns it is a mechanic at my LBS. even though the pics look like crap, it's actually in decent shape. i know nothing about Masi, however, so that it really does look nice is all i can say.

luker

bike isn't that old. SLX isn't that old. Mid-80's. you might suggest that he modify his description...

Citoyen du Monde

First off, the auction for the Faliero Masi is mine. I can however state that the bike is not mine and can reveal that I will not earn a wooden nickel from the sale of it. It belongs to Matteo Brandi from Florence. He asked me to sell it for him so as to remove any temptation of backing out of the sale on his part. Matteo has shown me a message from Alberto Masi that clearly states that the bike was built in Milan under the Vigorelli velodrome. I am most definitely not in a position to refute Alberto's claim, but it would not surprise me in the least if it was partially or fully farmed out. I would even expect it. Having said that, I must also add that I find it quite comical for Number6 to make the outlandish and patently false claim to know the provenance. Firstly, the frame has no serial number, so where are you going to get the information? Secondly, the one best placed to identify the provenance of the frame, namely Alberto Masi, who has viewed the frame in person and knows the previous owner, claims it to have been built in the Masi shop. Pretty bold stuff therefore for Number6 to be able to trace an untraceable item and define Alberto a liar all in one statement!

The same goes for his feeble attempt to try to malign the frame workmanship. I have brought in scores of Masi bikes from the Faliero era from Italy and I can honestly say that the finish of the frame is not particularly better or worse than any of the others. Is it up to the antiseptic level of the top modern-day American framebuilders? Most definitely not, but then few bikes are. Is there anything wrong with the frame having brazing quirks? In my eyes, no. Case closed.

Now a few trivia questions: How many of you have a 1973 Super Record rear derailleur? How many of you have a two-bolt Super Record seatpost (as opposed to the later one-bolt Nuovo Super Record seatpost)? How many of you have a Faliero Masi pantographed 3TTT stem with 7mm allen key bolts? For that matter, how many of you have any 3TTT stem with 7mm bolts? How many of you have Masi stamped 3TTT handlebars? How many of you have a first generation Super Record bottom bracket? How many of you have Masi branded Silca pumps?

This bike is the amalgam of an uncommon frame from a famed frame shop, fitted with equally hard to find top of the range componentry. What more can a collector want?

luker

Like I said (and I'm kinda sorry I brought it up...) this will be an interesting Masi to watch. My Masi is MC0250, and is all first generation super record ('76) save the bottom bracket - I ride the thing, and don't want to end up in the toolies with one working crank. There isn't a panto'ed part on it, and it has the proper vintage Cinelli bars and stem - as I'm thinking that a Carlsbad bike should have had. Teo's bike is cooler, no doubt. But there are a few others that are okay to go riding on...I do hope it makes its reserve, kinda. I bet Matteo is hoping that it doesn't, right now.

number6

Here is some of the logic, in a prior auction of yours, you were selling a set of Falerio Masi decals that match this bike, stated to be from one of Falerio's contract builders. Along with some other Masi sets in different auctions. This would directly infer that it is possible that a Falerio Masi frame was built for but not by the Vigorelli shop. And surprising to me, including paint & decoration. In your description you do not state exactly where the bike was built, and at this point lets assume it was built under the Vigorelli. The problem is that the workmanship visible, (not the brazing or alignment) is less than what one might expect from a bike built for a favored client. Also it might be special as to fit to the original owner, but to another is just a intriguing used bike (unless they need the same sizing). It does have a terrific assortment of components on it, not taking anything away from that, other than it is interesting that some of the parts were probably new old stock at the time of assembly, but parts dating is not very accurate as to a bike's age. The fork crown indicates sometime after the start of Carlsbad but before or as an alternate to the often seen Prestige crown as it has no slots. Assuming it was spec'd special for the original owner it shows the preferences of Falerio in relation to what was needed and desired by that purchaser save for the wear/use replacements. I just would have expected to see less visible file marks and better than most paint and paint detailing for a preferred customer or friend.

Citoyen du Monde

As Matteo wrote in the note added to the auction text, Alberto claims that it was built at the Vigorelli. As I have stated, I have seen this note from Alberto. Alberto has no reason to lie and claims that he remembers the particular bike and first owner. Please therefore explain why I would not accept this claim?

The stock of Masi decals that I obtained from a former Masi contract builder and painter included the GC, 'Faliero Masi', Prestige, 3V, 3V Kevlar and Faliero Signature ones. It is a long-time friend of Alberto and Faliero's, and somebody who wrenched together with both of them among the pros, who alerted me to this source. These decals were all made at different times by different decal makers, so obviously not reproductions. This therefore confirms that he was a long-term Masi subcontractor. I also picked up a few unpainted frames bearing another well-known brand from the same source. This other builder has confirmed to me that he used the subcontractor in question. Lastly, I also purchased a bike that carries the builder's own name on it. You can see many similarities between the unpainted frames and the self-branded frame. The construction methods used on these unpainted frames also appear the same. If I had any of these frames around right now, I would compare them directly to the Faliero Masi but unfortunately they are still in Italy. The only things that all of this means is that Masi did indeed use both subcontractors, as well as build in house. Nothing new there. It also means that my source for the decals was obviously a long-time subcontractor who was also sufficiently trusted to also be permitted to handle the relatively uncommon bikes that were labeled as Faliero Masi. For all I know, he may have only handled painting for Masi (although this goes against what was told to me by both the Masi friend and other contractor.)

As for your claim that the frame shows less than average workmanship with regards to file marks and paint, I can assure that this is not the case. This is a typical 30 year old Italian Masi, with original paint, that was built to be ridden. It was not meant to be a wall flower for lug-lickers and shows what I feel are far fewer file marks than most similar period Italian Masi frames. It has been used as was intended but the finish remains in very good shape, which is a testament to the paint's quality. As for the aesthetics of the trim and decals, I do agree that the yellow and blue of the decals and stem would have played much better off of a darker paint colour. None of us are however privy to what might have gone through either Faliero or the original owner's mind when the color scheme was selected. Perhaps it was intended to be an elegant understatement, much like De Rosa's 35th anniversary bikes.

Doctor Who

I have a Batavus just like that, which I picked up from my uncle for a cool $20.

Yeah, it also is completely outfitted with C-Record components and Wolber sew-ups. I gotta put it together, but yeah, it's all there.

Oh, did I mention that it's mint and only cost me $20?

luker

Yeah, you mentioned it...but you should get us some pictures to look at! sounds like an excellent deal!.