Centurion Serial Number Database
01-01-08, 07:58 AM
#251
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I have a mystery frame that I think might be a late Centurion, or possibly a higher-end bike made by the folks at Centurion. It's been stripped down except for a Tange Prestige II label, and a few spots of blue/pink pearl paint. The brake cable is routed through the top tube, and the rear dropouts are Shimano EF. In addition, the seatstays curl up around the seat lug--not something I've seen on too many frames. Here's the serial number (note how small the number is): N8S0043. According to what I've read so far, the serial number places the frame--if it is a Centurion--in the later months of 1988. Any help identifying this frame would be greatly appreciated!
01-01-08, 08:01 AM
#252
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Hey T-Mar.
I was given a Lemans RS today by someone cleaning out their garage.
Everything appears to be stock -
Shimano Light Action
Color is Black and Yellow
Tange #2
Arraya Anodized bronze 700c wheels
fluted 27.0 Sugino seatpost
sn# N7E7582
Shimano side pulls
6 speed shimano free wheel 13-26
Biobace rings
I assuming this is a 1987?
I was given a Lemans RS today by someone cleaning out their garage.
Everything appears to be stock -
Shimano Light Action
Color is Black and Yellow
Tange #2
Arraya Anodized bronze 700c wheels
fluted 27.0 Sugino seatpost
sn# N7E7582
Shimano side pulls
6 speed shimano free wheel 13-26
Biobace rings
I assuming this is a 1987?
01-01-08, 08:09 AM
#253
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T-Mar ,
Wish not to add info. of no use to o , however, can't positively ident. this onwe myself. Centerion with ser. no. N110188( second 1 cold be an "L" demonstrating sequence in production/pay period). Unmolested stickers verify Made in Japan - Champion No. 5 --- Chrome MolyBoen Steek ---Seamless R.G. Tubes .-------Tange Industusries.
I have beeen working on my own bikes for a number of years - this thread has been great -- but in this one instance I'm stymied ---Restore or maker a great Fixie?
Any help( Weigh in is appreciated)
THX , MLS
dashngracie
Wish not to add info. of no use to o , however, can't positively ident. this onwe myself. Centerion with ser. no. N110188( second 1 cold be an "L" demonstrating sequence in production/pay period). Unmolested stickers verify Made in Japan - Champion No. 5 --- Chrome MolyBoen Steek ---Seamless R.G. Tubes .-------Tange Industusries.
I have beeen working on my own bikes for a number of years - this thread has been great -- but in this one instance I'm stymied ---Restore or maker a great Fixie?
Any help( Weigh in is appreciated)
THX , MLS
dashngracie
01-02-08, 11:42 PM
#254
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I have a mystery frame that I think might be a late Centurion, or possibly a higher-end bike made by the folks at Centurion. It's been stripped down except for a Tange Prestige II label, and a few spots of blue/pink pearl paint. The brake cable is routed through the top tube, and the rear dropouts are Shimano EF. In addition, the seatstays curl up around the seat lug--not something I've seen on too many frames. Here's the serial number (note how small the number is): N8S0043. According to what I've read so far, the serial number places the frame--if it is a Centurion--in the later months of 1988. Any help identifying this frame would be greatly appreciated!
01-11-08, 10:33 PM
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T-Mar,
About a month or so ago, I saw an '89 Ironman Expert either in this thread or somewhere in C&V, blue to white fade, massively and nicely redone. I don't remember the components, but it had deep dish rims, blue bar tape, was photo'd by a tree. I've not been able to relocate the pic. Could you look and see if that's in your database? I'm rehab'ing a similar one, and could use some guidance, if not from the owner, then the picture, at least. Thanks.
About a month or so ago, I saw an '89 Ironman Expert either in this thread or somewhere in C&V, blue to white fade, massively and nicely redone. I don't remember the components, but it had deep dish rims, blue bar tape, was photo'd by a tree. I've not been able to relocate the pic. Could you look and see if that's in your database? I'm rehab'ing a similar one, and could use some guidance, if not from the owner, then the picture, at least. Thanks.
01-20-08, 12:35 PM
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Please add this to database:
1989 Centurion Ironman Master
Marbled Grey to White
Serial#: 8S6202
Sold on eBay
Item number: 250205402500
I was outbid, but thought I'd pass it along.
(Not much OEM left, but one for the database).
1989 Centurion Ironman Master
Marbled Grey to White
Serial#: 8S6202
Sold on eBay
Item number: 250205402500
I was outbid, but thought I'd pass it along.
(Not much OEM left, but one for the database).
01-21-08, 08:20 AM
#257
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T-Mar,
About a month or so ago, I saw an '89 Ironman Expert either in this thread or somewhere in C&V, blue to white fade, massively and nicely redone. I don't remember the components, but it had deep dish rims, blue bar tape, was photo'd by a tree. I've not been able to relocate the pic. Could you look and see if that's in your database? I'm rehab'ing a similar one, and could use some guidance, if not from the owner, then the picture, at least. Thanks.
About a month or so ago, I saw an '89 Ironman Expert either in this thread or somewhere in C&V, blue to white fade, massively and nicely redone. I don't remember the components, but it had deep dish rims, blue bar tape, was photo'd by a tree. I've not been able to relocate the pic. Could you look and see if that's in your database? I'm rehab'ing a similar one, and could use some guidance, if not from the owner, then the picture, at least. Thanks.
01-22-08, 07:44 AM
#259
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01-22-08, 08:42 AM
#260
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Here's one T-Mar to throw a wrench into the works, but will add it to the data-base anyway. Going by the Shimano 600 date codes the components were made in April '85, so that helps in narrowing it down a bit.
Centurian 'Elite RS'
frame: 'Tange 2' double-butted Cro-Moly seamless tubing (serial # KF51074)
fork: 'Tange' cr-mo steel fork blades.
headset: 'Tange' falcon
bars: Nitto 'Olympiade 115'
stem: Nitto 'Technomic'
calipers: 'Diacomp' Royal S' sidepulls
levers: Diacomp Gran Comp' that are drilled
crank: Sugino ALP with 52/42 Sugino chainrings
pedals: Shimano '600' toe-clip and strap
derailleurs: Shimano '600'
hubs: Suxue 'Sealed-Tech
wheels: 'Araya' 700c 36-spoke steel rims
seatpost: 'Sugino' SP-KC fluted
Centurian 'Elite RS'
frame: 'Tange 2' double-butted Cro-Moly seamless tubing (serial # KF51074)
fork: 'Tange' cr-mo steel fork blades.
headset: 'Tange' falcon
bars: Nitto 'Olympiade 115'
stem: Nitto 'Technomic'
calipers: 'Diacomp' Royal S' sidepulls
levers: Diacomp Gran Comp' that are drilled
crank: Sugino ALP with 52/42 Sugino chainrings
pedals: Shimano '600' toe-clip and strap
derailleurs: Shimano '600'
hubs: Suxue 'Sealed-Tech
wheels: 'Araya' 700c 36-spoke steel rims
seatpost: 'Sugino' SP-KC fluted
01-22-08, 08:48 AM
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update--
Centurion Le Mans $7.50 at thrift shop
sn=jn62280
frame High Tensile Ultralight 26
SunTour VGt[4532] SL
Dia-Compe
Crank&ring: Sugino [s-52]
sakae custom bar
sr [j76] stem
all in very good shape
Centurion Le Mans $7.50 at thrift shop
sn=jn62280
frame High Tensile Ultralight 26
SunTour VGt[4532] SL
Dia-Compe
Crank&ring: Sugino [s-52]
sakae custom bar
sr [j76] stem
all in very good shape
Last edited by sfthurber; 01-22-08 at 09:13 AM.
01-22-08, 09:13 AM
#262
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Here's one T-Mar to throw a wrench into the works, but will add it to the data-base anyway. Going by the Shimano 600 date codes the components were made in April '85, so that helps in narrowing it down a bit.
Centurian 'Elite RS'
frame: 'Tange 2' double-butted Cro-Moly seamless tubing (serial # KF51074)
fork: 'Tange' cr-mo steel fork blades.
headset: 'Tange' falcon
bars: Nitto 'Olympiade 115'
stem: Nitto 'Technomic'
calipers: 'Diacomp' Royal S' sidepulls
levers: Diacomp Gran Comp' that are drilled
crank: Sugino ALP with 52/42 Sugino chainrings
pedals: Shimano '600' toe-clip and strap
derailleurs: Shimano '600'
hubs: Suxue 'Sealed-Tech
wheels: 'Araya' 700c 36-spoke steel rims
seatpost: 'Sugino' SP-KC fluted
Centurian 'Elite RS'
frame: 'Tange 2' double-butted Cro-Moly seamless tubing (serial # KF51074)
fork: 'Tange' cr-mo steel fork blades.
headset: 'Tange' falcon
bars: Nitto 'Olympiade 115'
stem: Nitto 'Technomic'
calipers: 'Diacomp' Royal S' sidepulls
levers: Diacomp Gran Comp' that are drilled
crank: Sugino ALP with 52/42 Sugino chainrings
pedals: Shimano '600' toe-clip and strap
derailleurs: Shimano '600'
hubs: Suxue 'Sealed-Tech
wheels: 'Araya' 700c 36-spoke steel rims
seatpost: 'Sugino' SP-KC fluted
Yes, with those very late 1976 codes, it is almost certainly a 1977 model. Thanks for the contributuion. This is a big help on pre-1980 Centurions.
Last edited by T-Mar; 01-22-08 at 09:19 AM.
01-22-08, 11:57 AM
#263
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[QUOTE=T-Mar; However, these other Elite RS serial numbers all have 8 characters with 6 numbers. I notice yours is 7 and 5 repectively. Any chance you forgot to type one number?QUOTE]
Yeah you darn skippy there's a chance.
I re-checked the serial number and sure enough, there's six numbers in the 8 character format (doh)
After pulling one of the derailleur cables out of the way, the new serial # KF510741
Thanks for all your help T-Mar.
Yeah you darn skippy there's a chance.
I re-checked the serial number and sure enough, there's six numbers in the 8 character format (doh)
After pulling one of the derailleur cables out of the way, the new serial # KF510741
Thanks for all your help T-Mar.
02-19-08, 01:25 PM
#264
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Ashley, I have more evidence supporting my opinion that M-serial numbers and N-serial numbers are from different suppliers. Now have M-serial serial numbers going up into 1980 as far as May. Meanwhile, I have N-serial numbers starting as early in 1980 as January. If they were from same factory, I would not expect them to overlap for 5 months!
02-20-08, 12:02 PM
#265
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.
Hi T-Mar,
.
Very interesting. The apparent 1980 or thereabouts switch
seems to conicide with the disappearence of the Professional
and, later, the Semi-Professional models (ie the Cinelliesqe
knock off models). I wonder if there is a connection?
.
There must be cyclists and others in Japan who know what
manufacturer made what brands. All must have been made
within the manufacturing sphere of one of the big Japanese
manufacturion\trading combines and that Japanese industrial
structure should make it easy to trace manufacturing if one
is Japanese or is literate in Japanese and can probe
Japanese websites.
.
I've got a Japanese friend, a former journalist, who is now
spokesman for the Japanese Foreign Ministry. I'll see if I
can enlist his help. He was a political AND business journalist
for Asahi Shimbun, a major Japanese newspaper with both Japanese
and English-language editions, so maybe he can point me to
someone who would know.
.
If memory serves, you once speculated that the N in the '80s
Centurion serial numbers might stand for National. I'll bet
you are correct. I think it was you who pointed out that
National also manufactured Panaracer tires, which appeared
on many mid- and late-80s Centurions. This theory may be
a good starting point for investigation.
.
Oh, almost forgot to ask: Do you now have enough evidence
to support a dating code theory on the M-series serial
numbers? And, if so, does it conform to the N-series dating
code?
.
Hi T-Mar,
.
Very interesting. The apparent 1980 or thereabouts switch
seems to conicide with the disappearence of the Professional
and, later, the Semi-Professional models (ie the Cinelliesqe
knock off models). I wonder if there is a connection?
.
There must be cyclists and others in Japan who know what
manufacturer made what brands. All must have been made
within the manufacturing sphere of one of the big Japanese
manufacturion\trading combines and that Japanese industrial
structure should make it easy to trace manufacturing if one
is Japanese or is literate in Japanese and can probe
Japanese websites.
.
I've got a Japanese friend, a former journalist, who is now
spokesman for the Japanese Foreign Ministry. I'll see if I
can enlist his help. He was a political AND business journalist
for Asahi Shimbun, a major Japanese newspaper with both Japanese
and English-language editions, so maybe he can point me to
someone who would know.
.
If memory serves, you once speculated that the N in the '80s
Centurion serial numbers might stand for National. I'll bet
you are correct. I think it was you who pointed out that
National also manufactured Panaracer tires, which appeared
on many mid- and late-80s Centurions. This theory may be
a good starting point for investigation.
.
Oh, almost forgot to ask: Do you now have enough evidence
to support a dating code theory on the M-series serial
numbers? And, if so, does it conform to the N-series dating
code?
.
The M-serial numbers appear to match the interpretation of the N-serial numbers, but unfortunately the ones I do have are mostly from bare frames and/or have no supplied component codes. So there is nothing to go on except speculation. The M-prefix and format does match a known manufacturer but this could be coincidence and I have nothing to substantiate it.
Regarding National/Panasonic as the source of the N-serial numbers, if you look at the Pasnaonic models, they do not have an N-prefix on the serial numbers. However, it is also possible that National added the N to identify contract frames as opposed to their own? Or are those number prefix Comp TA frames from National?
Bottom line is that I don't have sufficient evidence to commit to a statement on the source. FYI, so far I have what appears to be 13 different serial number formats, so WSI certainly seems to have farmed the contracts out over quite a number of companies.
02-20-08, 07:23 PM
#266
Senior Member
Centurion LeMans, Based on the color scheme, it's a 1988 model year. Serial number is N7M12553 making it a late December 1987 produced frame. Color is yellow and white (Fork and head tube). The Shimano Lite Action Group moniker is on the tube shifters.
02-20-08, 08:23 PM
#267
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Here's a Diamondback I just acquired... S/N 8917290. It is an Expert TG. It is OS Cro-Mo tubing. RX100, indexed 7sp downtubes. It is white top/black bottom with paint splatters. I got it from the original owner, he said it was purchased in early 1990, so it should be 89-90.
I will try to get some pics late next week when I get some time.
I will try to get some pics late next week when I get some time.
02-21-08, 04:36 AM
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Hi, I have just registered for this forum. I have owned two Centruion Professional frames that I bought new in the late 70's in New Zealand. I sucessfully raced them both, even winning a few races and an NZ title on them. One was stolen, and the second I dented in a crash and sold.
I do recall they had a serial number starting with M, due to one being stolen.
Ampala's bike is identical (lugs, even the tapering down on the drilled lugwork from hand finishing) to the ones I owned, apart from the braze-ons; mine had none.
If anyone has a 70's Cinelli Professional 24" (60cm) frame they would sell (no braze-ons) , I would be very keen. It will be restored to original condition and specced with the parts I raced with (Campagnolo and DuraAce) without any expense spared.
I do recall they had a serial number starting with M, due to one being stolen.
Ampala's bike is identical (lugs, even the tapering down on the drilled lugwork from hand finishing) to the ones I owned, apart from the braze-ons; mine had none.
If anyone has a 70's Cinelli Professional 24" (60cm) frame they would sell (no braze-ons) , I would be very keen. It will be restored to original condition and specced with the parts I raced with (Campagnolo and DuraAce) without any expense spared.
02-21-08, 06:50 AM
#269
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Hi,
Counting on my fingers, I get first half of July (1987) from
your serial number's M fortnight indicator. Still could be
a 1988 MODEL, though, despite the 1987 MANUFACTURE date
(N7...). I have an Ironman Expert with an N7M... serial
number and it is definately a 1988 MODEL. It's red and white
"fade" color scheme (white fork, head tube, faded white-to-
red down and top tubes and faded red-to-white seat and chain
stays) tell me that.
Counting on my fingers, I get first half of July (1987) from
your serial number's M fortnight indicator. Still could be
a 1988 MODEL, though, despite the 1987 MANUFACTURE date
(N7...). I have an Ironman Expert with an N7M... serial
number and it is definately a 1988 MODEL. It's red and white
"fade" color scheme (white fork, head tube, faded white-to-
red down and top tubes and faded red-to-white seat and chain
stays) tell me that.
02-21-08, 05:56 PM
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Hi Roger,
.
Do you mean Cinelli Professional or Centurion Professional,
Centurion's Cinelli-look-alike model of the mid- to late
'70s?
.
Over the last five years I've been looking, I've not seen
one Centurion Professional come up on eBay. I've seen a
few very similar Centurion Semi-Professional models, which
were one step down from the Professional. So my guess is
that you will have a hard time finding one, especially
in your 60cm size. I ride 62cm c-c and bikes 60cm c-c and
larger are much harder to find, especially among the higher-
end models.
.
Are you a Kiwi? If so, do you know the name Bill Sutch, NZ's
Industries & Commerce Secretary in the '50s? My mother knew
him at Columbia U. in New York when they were graduate
students together in the 1930s. :-)
.
More on Centurion bikes at: www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion
.
.
Do you mean Cinelli Professional or Centurion Professional,
Centurion's Cinelli-look-alike model of the mid- to late
'70s?
.
Over the last five years I've been looking, I've not seen
one Centurion Professional come up on eBay. I've seen a
few very similar Centurion Semi-Professional models, which
were one step down from the Professional. So my guess is
that you will have a hard time finding one, especially
in your 60cm size. I ride 62cm c-c and bikes 60cm c-c and
larger are much harder to find, especially among the higher-
end models.
.
Are you a Kiwi? If so, do you know the name Bill Sutch, NZ's
Industries & Commerce Secretary in the '50s? My mother knew
him at Columbia U. in New York when they were graduate
students together in the 1930s. :-)
.
More on Centurion bikes at: www.sheldonbrown.com/centurion
.
Hi, I do mean a Centurion Professional, circa 1977-78. Sorry, but I dont know your friend. I am now living in Sydney Australia. I have seen one on the web which is about a 62cm, but the owner doesnt want to part with it. I also heard of one in NZ last year for sale, but in a smaller size. If anyone is interested, I can enquire if it is still for sale, although I doubt it.
02-24-08, 06:42 PM
#271
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Several months ago I posted my Centurion LeMans #F3105691 At that point I was new to Centurion bikes so I didn't know one from another.Later I mentioned I thought it was on a Dave Scott frame. A few weeks ago I picked up a mint Dave Scott Expert, Pink and Yellow #N76468, 1987 I think. I also picked up a never ridden Sport DLX from the owner who bought it in 1985 #F61084 Here is where the LeMans very odd serial number bike get even stranger is that it has a true investment cast fork all chrome. I never noticed it until I got the Dave Scott and had the two bike next to each other.The Dave Scott and the LeMans have the same 105 equipment. The numbers on parts seem to put the LeMans in 1988 The LeMans says Tange 2 and the Dave Scott says Tange 1. Has any one figured out the odd number on my LeMans yet?
Ed
Ed
02-24-08, 07:51 PM
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New entry here...
Centurion LeMans, date unconfirmed, S/N: N8B5143
Metallic dark red (single color, no fade...could it still be an '88?)
Tange ("3 main tubes butted") 1.2mm/0.9mm
Nitto bars and stem, no numbers
Sunshine Hubs, front S/N: 5345
Silstar (SR) crankset, MKS pedals
Kashimax brown plastic saddle Model Hi-Soft 16, No. 7382
Any year confirmations? she's sitting SS now, soon to be fixed.
Centurion LeMans, date unconfirmed, S/N: N8B5143
Metallic dark red (single color, no fade...could it still be an '88?)
Tange ("3 main tubes butted") 1.2mm/0.9mm
Nitto bars and stem, no numbers
Sunshine Hubs, front S/N: 5345
Silstar (SR) crankset, MKS pedals
Kashimax brown plastic saddle Model Hi-Soft 16, No. 7382
Any year confirmations? she's sitting SS now, soon to be fixed.
02-26-08, 02:38 AM
#273
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My Centurion Professional
I dug out these old pics from about 1980. This bike was my second Centurion Professional, and is a 1977 or 1978 model. It is hard to see in the photos, but it has Centurion written in gold on the downtube.
If anyone is interested in a hi-res picture, let me know. The original photo is not that great either though.
The parts were mostly dura ace, with gold Mavic centerpull brakes, fiamme red label rims, Continental Criterium silk tyres, I dont recall the pedals, but probably MKS (cheap but good). I was 16 or 17 when this photo was taken. The trophy is the N.Z. Junior 20km team time trial trophy.
I do have a high-res b&w photo from the NZ national champs road race that year. It was on my earlier Centurion. When I find it I will post it.
If anyone is interested in a hi-res picture, let me know. The original photo is not that great either though.
The parts were mostly dura ace, with gold Mavic centerpull brakes, fiamme red label rims, Continental Criterium silk tyres, I dont recall the pedals, but probably MKS (cheap but good). I was 16 or 17 when this photo was taken. The trophy is the N.Z. Junior 20km team time trial trophy.
I do have a high-res b&w photo from the NZ national champs road race that year. It was on my earlier Centurion. When I find it I will post it.
02-26-08, 06:53 AM
#274
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Several months ago I posted my Centurion LeMans #F3105691 At that point I was new to Centurion bikes so I didn't know one from another.Later I mentioned I thought it was on a Dave Scott frame. A few weeks ago I picked up a mint Dave Scott Expert, Pink and Yellow #N76468, 1987 I think. I also picked up a never ridden Sport DLX from the owner who bought it in 1985 #F61084 Here is where the LeMans very odd serial number bike get even stranger is that it has a true investment cast fork all chrome. I never noticed it until I got the Dave Scott and had the two bike next to each other.The Dave Scott and the LeMans have the same 105 equipment. The numbers on parts seem to put the LeMans in 1988 The LeMans says Tange 2 and the Dave Scott says Tange 1. Has any one figured out the odd number on my LeMans yet?
Ed
Ed
The Ironman Expert is consistent with other 1987 models. but the serial number would verify it for sure. Unfortunately it is missing the letter after the 7 which would identify exactly when in 1987 it was built.
I don't believe the Sport DLX to be a 1985. I have specs for the 1985 model and it is spec'd with SunTour AR derailleurs, while the bicycle in question has Shimano derailleurs. In fact, the front derailleur appears to be a FD-Z202? Furthermore, that is not the 1985 graphics scheme. It does not appear to be any older than 1986 and is probably a 1986 or 1987 model. It would be interesting to know the component date codes. Also, I have never run into an F serial number with only six characters. You certainly seem to come up bicycles having serial number anomalies.
It's a 1988 model, based on the serial number. We have very confidence in this serial number foramt and have come across other LeMans from 1988 with solid colors.
Last edited by T-Mar; 02-26-08 at 07:00 AM.
02-28-08, 08:19 AM
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T-Mar You are correct about the DS Expert # I forgot the " A" ,here is the corrected #N7A6468. It is all 105. The LeMans is not all 105 as I stated it has Sport LX derailers.It does have a true investment cast fork not welded as on the Ironman. Also the Sport DLX was purchased in 1986. The lady had the receipt but forgot to give it to me. The # on the Sport had two more very faint number on it. It could be a 82 or a 92. Here is what it could be F6108482 or F6108492. Has anyone seen this investment cast fork on a LeMans before?? Thanks for all your hard work on the Centurion bikes
Ed
Ed
Last edited by EddyR; 02-28-08 at 08:23 AM. Reason: added line