fritz1255

My very first 10-speed in about 1970 was a well-worn French bike that a friend of mine and I rebuilt. One thing that we did was to pull off the side pull brakes and replace with Weinmann center pulls. Most new 10-speeds of the 70's other than very low-priced bike-boom models had center-pulls. I was shocked to see a few years later (about 1980) that even some pricey new bikes were equipped with side pulls. Were center pulls really an improvement during the early 70's, or just a passing fad. Did side pulls make some type of technological leap between 1970 and 1980 that made them superior to center pulls?

sykerocker 

I won't so much call it a technological leap as design evolution. Once the Japanese started apeing the Campagnolo Record sidepulls, a quality product finally got down to the price point where us common schmucks could afford them.

And, if you think back, Weinman sidepulls back then weren't really all that bad. Yeah, they could be a ***** to set, trying to get them balanced, but I had a trick of semi-tightening them down then tapping on the spring coil using a 1/4" drive extension and a medium hammer. Then tighten, tapping again if necessary if they shifted. A bit labor intensive, but it worked every time.

Once mass market bikes started to upgrade, it wasn't at all odd to see the guys in my crowd (Presque Isle Bicycle Club, Erie, PA) who had terminal wallet fatigue to take a set of Weinmann sidepulls and polish the daylights out of them, giving at least the semi-respectability of Campagnolo or Shimano sidepulls.

Most of the downside to the old sidepulls is, for the most part, because they were CHEAP!!!!! As in, built down to a price point. To hell with "how do they work", but more of "what do they cost". Equally badly built centerpulls (say, Universals) were more efficient just from design. To make a sidepull work as well as a centerpull, you had to put more into the design.

Syke
Deranged Few M/C

alanbikehouston

Around 1970, it was possible to build low cost center pull brakes that stopped a bike very well. And, "high end" center pull brakes good enough feel and modulation to be used by Pro racers. In that time period, the only side pull brakes that worked equally well were very expensive Campy models.

By the late 1970's, companies such as Shimano and Sun Tour were selling low cost side-pull brakes that worked as well as expensive Campy brakes. At that point "style" and marketing forces took over. Top Pro cyclists were using the Campy side pull brakes. So, every road bike being sold as a "pretend" race bike needed side pulls.

I like center pull brakes. Many side pull brakes only work well when they are perfectly centered...getting them centered and keeping them centered can be a nuisance. And, most "modern" side pull brakes lack enough room to use both "fat" 28mm tires and full fenders. The trend toward all road bikes being designed as "pretend" race bikes has made them LESS useful to those of us who ride 300 days or 350 days a year, rain or shine.

Sluggo

The bottom line for function is mechanical advantage (leverage). For a bike with enough clearance for moderately wide tires and fenders, the centerpull is a better design, then and now. For tight-clearance bikes that only fit a skinny tire with no room for a fender, the leverage advantage of the centerpull fades, and the simplicity of the sidepull pulls even (and the weinmann 500 works as well as anything, it just doesn't look as cool). For really large clearances, the only way to get acceptable braking is cantilevers or other such brakes that have the same leverage no matter what the clearance.

Nightshade

While I like both side & center pulls you can improve
center pulls with a stiffener bar where you can't side
pulls.

Sheldon Brown added a stiffener bar at the pivot point
on a set of centerpulls that REALLY made a difference
in braking power. I copied Sheldon's design on my
center's and WOW!! I can stop now!! Oh yeah can I stop!!

Ya hafta be careful not grab to big a handful or you'll lock the
front wheel.........now!!

mswantak

You got a link to Sheldon's article on that stiffener? I'd like to get a look at it.

OLDYELLR

A centre pull caliper should be simpler and easier to keep centered, but in practice sidepulls work just fine. I have a Miyata from the 80s that has Dia Compe sidepulls with an adjustment screw to do this, but that puts the caliper farther out from the fork crown or bridge, making it less rigid, and, of course, adding weight. I find the easiest way to center a sidepull brake is to tap the spring from the side using a hammer and a large screwdriver. I believe the reason for the move to sidepulls in the 80s was simplicity and weight savings. Actually, in the late eighties there was a resurgence of a type of centre pull brake that came with the aero craze, but sidepulls seem to be pretty much standard for road bikes now.

Fred Smedley

https://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-int...al-nexus07.html

It appears this link is not working today, but you can find the booster on one of Sheldon's Ralieghs on his personal bike page.

John E

Jobst Brandt claims that centerpulls are an evolutionary dead end that deserved to die out, but Sheldon does defend them for bikes with generous tyre/mudguard clearances. There is a whole thread about brake performance elsewhere in this forum, with some debate, but with general agreement that new cable housings help, aero brake handles help, and KoolStop salmon pads help.

number6

If you ever get to try a frameset fitted with centerpull brakes that have brazed on pivot bosses, that might make you vote for center pull calipers. The other thing that helps as seen on my father's Carlton Catalina from 1964 was it used the handlebar stem as the cable stop instead of the drop yoke that flexes significantly under load. That change alone sure helps the feel and modulation greatly.

top506

Nashbar markets a cast Al cable stop for the streerer tube that is quite stiff.
I'm gonna make me up a set of those booster/braces this weekend for the Weinmans on my beater.
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John E

Through-the-stem cable routing makes headset work and handlebar height adjustment a royal pain, but it does indeed have its merits. My Schwinn has a drilled Nitto stem, and the front RollerCam brake works superbly.

MAFAC had particularly flimsy front brake cable stops; the Weinmanns were (very) slightly stiffer/better.

peripatetic

https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

This the one you're talking about? Is it stiffer than the old weinmann cable hanger on my Raleigh Grand Prix? Still haven't managed to get a glimpse of what you all are talking about on Sheldon Brown's site.

Deanster04

The best brake in the 60's and 70's was the Mafac Competition used by a lot of the European racing crowd. Let me rephrase what I stated THE ONLY BRAKE WAS THE MAFAC CANTILEVER TYPE BRAKE. All other brakes were mere speed attenuators. Not until the recent innovation of the double pivot sidepull brakes were bicycle brakes worth anything. I should have stated that I am a big rider 180# in my competition days late 50's and 60's and today I am north of 210#. Like riding down hill fast and always have. I elected to go with Mafac brakes on my Cinelli that I purchased in 1969 instead of the campy sidepull brakes. The main problem with the Mafacs was the screeching sound that was almost impossible to get rid of. The rubber on the brake pads was one piece. Safety over looks! Almost forgot they were self aligning as well.

top506

Yep, that's the puppy.
I have the same Weinman hanger on my box stock Super Grand prix, and the Nashbar item on my beater Alatia with the same calipers is far better.
Try https://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-inte...nt-nexus7.html for a shot of the front brake booster. If that doesn't work, back door in from the 'My bikes' area of the website.
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Grand Bois

I think that Nashbar hanger is for threadless headsets. It takes the place of a 10mm spacer. You may not have enough threads left for your lock nut if you use it on a threaded headset.

top506

I've had no problems on my 30 year old Atalia.
In the case you postulate, tighten the SOB down and it becomes the locknut, just as if it were on a threadless headset.
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peripatetic

Alright, I'm gonna try that nashbar puppy. 2 bucks can't be too wasted in any case. As far as that brace Mr. Brown has on his Weinmann's (thanks for the 'improved' link, top), how/what are y'all making that with. I'm not very skilled with metallurgy, so I have no clue where I'd even find the right material!

And SOB = ? I'm guessing that I can just take out the locknut and/or spacer and replace the screw-on hanger with the stiffer nashbar one, no?

Good little piece of info here, all, btw.

And while I've got an audience of centerpull aficionadoes, how do youse guys adjust tighten your cables? Do you just estimate length, then tighten down the locknut on the brake cable and then stretch the straddle cable up, or do you just use the ferrules alot? I don't have a 3d-hand tool, I kind of wonder if that's the missing ingredient. No matter what, my cable seems to end up too tight or too loose when I try to adjust it. What's your secret?

dafydd

toe strap or shoelace makes a fine third-hand tool.

Grand Bois

Here's the type that's used with threaded headsets:

https://tinyurl.com/aahxz

Note the protrusion that fits the keyway on a threaded steerer an holds the hanger straight. It's locked down with the headset locknut.

The one that Nashbar sells is designed to be clamped to a threadless steerer tube. It won't work properly on a bike with a threaded headset. I suppose you could make it work, but the correct part will work better.

peripatetic

Duh! Sheesh. Dumber than a doornail I am! But I won't need a fourth hand to tie that "third hand?" I guess a toestrap can be tightened w/ one hand, huh? Thanks anyway for enlightening my benighted mechanics' mind.

DDrop, thanks for the link.

Grand Bois

I've been using an Irwin Quick Grip mini bar clamp as a third hand tool for years. It works great. It's all plastic so it doesn't scratch and it can be tightened or loosened with one hand. I guess I'm not the only one that thought of it. I recently saw them being sold as third hand tools somewhere online.

https://tinyurl.com/83ll2

top506

Why not?
'Make it work' is a yankee mantra.
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top506

Y'know, I was going to grind down a piece of Al angle stock, but I think I found an easier work-around. I have a ton of calipers from dump take-offs, and I think I'll just strip one out and use the rear bridge on the front with extra-long bolts for the caliper arms. In effect, this will 'sandwich' the arms between two bridge pieces. That should stiffen it up some.
What do you all think?
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