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Old 05-17-06, 10:23 AM   #1
kimak13
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Yet another Vintage Peugeot question.

I have recently come into possession of a 1977 Peugeot frame – translation: someone threw out an old trashed bike and my friend grabbed it for me. I am looking to clean it up and restore it to greatness, though to fixed-gear greatness given its awesome horizontal dropouts.

I have identified the year (1977) from the SN located under the BB (a neat trick that I learned in one of the forums – thanks), though do not know the model and am trying to learn more about the specs of the bike (my best guess is a PX-10, though it is entirely a guess).

Here is some information that might help to identify it: It is a white bike with Reynolds 531 tubing; there are red, white and blue stripe stickers on the bike representing the French flag (I’ve not seen anything quite like it). It had a double Stronglight crank (pain to find a bike shop with the tool to pull it), Simplex derailers, Shimnano Tourney rear breaks, Atax stem and I believe Mallard hubs (though the wheelset was pretty trashed.

I need to find a reasonably priced BB (and crank set), hopefully used, for this bike, though I am not sure of the size or if I would be able to upgrade to a square tapered sealed cartridge BB that would afford me more choice in a crank set (any ideas or spare parts lying around for sale/trade?).

I have not been able to find information on this on www.sheldonbrown.com and was hoping someone out there could help.

Cheers!

P.S. I can add pictures, though need to wait until after work to shrink the images down to comply with the attachment size requirements.
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Old 05-17-06, 10:54 AM   #2
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I'd like to see a photo before I advise you.

The s/n trick doesn't always work for seventies peugeots. For instance, my 1973 PX10e has no sevens or threes in the serial number (I can date it from the original reciept, which I have). If the number is on a plate, the dating trick doesn't work IME. If it's on piece of paper taped to the BB shell, it will.

From the description, your bike is either a PX10 or a PR/PK10. Key are where the chrome is on the bike, and if the "531" on the sticker is horizontal or diagonal (diagonal=PX10).

Depending on date, the threads on your BB shell are either French or Swiss. French, go with the Sugino cups from Harris. Cheap and effective. Not sealed, but likely best option, and there are tons of old Japanese spindles about that will fir those cups.

I would help you with the SL crank and the BB, but I'm far away from NYC. DO NOT allow a shop to remove the crank with a TA remover; sometimes they work, sometimes they strip out the crank threads. Make sure they have a 23.35mm SL remover and not just a 23mm TA one.
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Old 05-17-06, 11:03 AM   #3
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Here is a long thread from SS/fixed on just your problem. Too lazy to type it all again.

peugeot fixie - crank options?
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Old 05-17-06, 01:46 PM   #4
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Thanks Poguemahone! You're the resident expert here, I've seen your name on most of the postings I've searched.

I couldn't wait until I got home, so I tried to throw the pictures I had up on the web for you to see. They are from when I first got the bike and are not pretty, before I started stripping it down and cleaned her. Let me know if you have issues accessing them: http://kimak13.50megs.com/

(sorry about the initial issues with the pictures CV-6, not sure what happened)

It looks like the "531" on the sticker (what's left of it) is horizontal, which would mean that it's a PR/PK10? I'll post the SN when I get home to see if we can learn any more from that. I'll have to read the other posting you sent to identify the BB stuff, though I may still have questions.

We're too late on removal of the crank; I went to my LBS yesterday and they did not have a Stronglight crank puller and sent me to another (high end snobby) bike shop. For the benefit of those reading from NYC it was R&A Cycles on 5th Ave. in Brooklyn. They gave me a hard time, as if it was beneath them to do such a small job, though they still managed to mess it up and pulled the entire bottom bracket instead of the crank as I had asked. The manager didn't give correct instructions to the mechanic in the back, and then he got angry when I asked them to pull the other crank from the spindle, as that was all I asked for in the first place because I didn't have that tool. They then pulled the crank arm from the spindle and handed the crank arm and SOME (not all) of the BB parts (bearings falling to the floor as he walked out from the shop)...therefore I don't even have a full BB to work with or give away. BEWARE of R&A Cycles.

I hope they didn't strip it, I hadn't thought of that?

Last edited by kimak13; 05-17-06 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 05-17-06, 02:32 PM   #5
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Got to see a couple of pics before transfer limit was exceeded. Looks like a nice snag to me. I see LJ derailleurs, Stronglight crank (49D?) and a nice lugged frame. Can't access the Cycles-Retro Peugeot site for some reason, so have no real idea what model it is. Leave that to the Poque-man anyway.

What caught my eye in the pic (http://www.geocities.com/kimak13/DSCN0394.JPG) was the forks on the fixie Peugeot. Did someone have an argument with a solid object?
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Old 05-17-06, 03:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CV-6
What caught my eye in the pic (http://www.geocities.com/kimak13/DSCN0394.JPG) was the forks on the fixie Peugeot. Did someone have an argument with a solid object?
Are you talking about the blue bike on the right; that's my other bike (my first) that I built up in January? There was a lot of talk about that fork in the forum when I asked some questions and posted a picture while I was finishing her.

She was also trashed when I got her and I can only assume she was in an accident, as the wheels were completely shot (wouldn't even turn through the breaks). The fork looks perfectly symmetrical and rides fine, though I think they are bent as they dip back a bit before going forward after leaving the headset.

I've been meaning to get a new fork (to me...i.e. used), though I'm not sure on the size. The only way that it currently affects me is with concern to toe overlap.
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Old 05-17-06, 05:54 PM   #7
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PR10 from about 1975-7. Your bottom bracket should be French thread. Wouldn't mind trash like that in my neighbourhood, all I find is Bianchis and vintage track hubs...

I spot some rust (I think) on the rear mech, so it's probably from the SX series, not the Super LJ series. If a magnet sticks to it, it's an SX. Good, durable mech, somewhat slighted due the bad rep of Simplex's earlier derlin stuff. The SLJs are fantastic, amoung the best mechs of their period, but hard to find.

Bearings are no big deal (and best replaced anyhoo). If you've the rest of the BB you are fine. I'm somewhat confused as to what the shop did-- sounds like they removed the drive side, then removed the adjustable cup? Gah, seems simpler just to remove both crankarms. Did they remove the fixed cup as well?

IME, shops are carefully dealt with when giving them a French bicycle. Some shops, the mechanics are as familiar with flying saucers as they are French bikes. Maybe more familiar with the saucers, as at least they can id them... the French bike looks assuringly within the range of their competence, when it's not. Talk to the mechanics a bit and assure yourself they at least have some knowledge. Read Sheldon's french page and various threads here on the french stuff. I do all my own wrenching due to a paucity of competent shops in my area, and envy those who have a good LBS.

I might be able to work out a trade w/you on the BB parts/crank, assuming your BB races are not pitted and the chainrings ain't completely shot. PM me if interested.
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Old 05-20-06, 01:37 PM   #8
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Trash like that is okay with me too; I actually found a fully functional Bianchi Strada LX on the trash back in December, she just needed a good cleaning.

Sorry for the delay in my reply, though I’m actually away for the week. However, I wrote down some additional information about the bike before leaving to post here. The SN is 7070258, from which I initially thought it was a 1977. The rear rim says “Samir Samiox,” is laced to a “4-71” hub and has a 5-speed Mallard cassette. The front rim has a “Super Champion” sticker on it and is laced to a “Normandy” hub that has a red sticker in the shape of France on it. The stem also has a red sticker in the shape of France on it and a set of handlebars that read “Franco Italy.”

Does this confirm the PR10 SX, from 1975-7, theory? I’ll have to try the magnet trick when I get home.

The shop, when asked to simply pull the crank arms from the BB, pulled one crank arm from the BB and then the other (drive side) arm from the frame with the BB attached and hanging off. I then asked them to pull the other crank arm from the BB, which they did and returned to me less a few parts and heavy on the attitude.

I’ve never worked on a BB before, especially one this old, so I’m not entirely sure what’s missing yet. I’ll have to do more research on it and compare it with what I’ve got before giving a report back. I’d like to do all my wrenching, though I don’t have the knowledge or the tools yet. I just got my first bike specific tool set, the Nashbar Rolled Tool Kit, a few weeks back.

I would love to work out a trade regarding the BB parts/crank; I have a whole list of bike parts that I’d like to sell/trade to enable this new project. I’ll ping you (Poguemahone) when I return to NY over Memorial Day weekend. I can also post my parts list here if anyone else is interested, needs anything or has any parts to trade.

Lastly, I noted the SN from my other bike, a Peugeot Corbier, which I built up to a fixed gear back in January: Y707 30209. I assumed it was a 1987, though am interested in confirming this and learning more about this bike as well.

Cheers!
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Old 05-20-06, 01:48 PM   #9
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Congrats on the PR-10. My 1980 PKN-10 is Swiss-threaded; I think yours is indeed French-threaded, but I am still trying to learn the transition year. (My S/N IS consistent with first digit = last digit of year.)
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Old 05-20-06, 02:47 PM   #10
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Just to clear up any confusion, the SX refers to the model of the rear derailleur and has nothing to do with the bike model itself (after re-reading my post on this, I can see how it is confusing. I'd edit my post, but am too lazy).

Like John E, I've tried to pin down the date of the conversion from French to Swiss (and also from Swiss to English) by Peugeot. Never gotten it exact like.
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Old 06-21-06, 07:13 PM   #11
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For those still interested...

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you, and for the length of this message, though the past few weeks have been ridiculously crazy. I’m finally past a few of the larger hurdles and would like to start making some progress on the new (to me) Peugeot.

Right now, I have both cups, the spindle and a plastic accordion style sleeve from the bottom bracket. I know that the left adjustable cup threads in clockwise, though I do not have a wrench large enough to free the fixed cup and am therefore not sure if it threads the same.

As I understand, an English threaded fixed cup has a left-hand thread, French or Italian threaded fixed cups have a right-hand thread. I tried Sheldon Brown’s home made fixed cup wrench tool, though broke my wrench in the process and have to resolve that prior to cintinuing to remove the fixed cup to to identify if I'm English or French threaded (I need to take off the fixed cup as well to identify this, right?).

However, as I can salvage the current cups, should I be concerned with the threading or have I bypassed this issue? Just to confirm before going further, unless going with Phil Wood cups that are way out of my budget, I do not have the option of using a cartridge bottom bracket, right?

Given these assumptions, I’m now trying to identify what parts I need to get moving:
  • Bearings: I have no ball bearings for the BB and from what I understood from some of the other postings; I would need 11 loose ¼” balls per side and some waterproof grease. Not yet sure how to do this or where they would go, though I believe this is what I would need. Also, would I need to remove the fixed cup to insert the bearings on that side of the BB?
  • Spindle: I currently have the “Stronglight 120 Marque Deposee” spindle, though I’m not sure if this is the correct size for a straight chain line for a fixed gear (flipped or standard configuration) and if this spindle will fit an array of inexpensive cranks. I tried a crank arm from my other bike (inexpensive Sakae crank) and it fit, so I’m assuming it would work if it is the correct length; any thoughts?
  • Crank set: I currently have the stylish Srtonglight crank set, though I am looking to replace it with an inexpensive double crank set, with one chain ring, for a fixed gear. This is because I don’t have the Stronglight crank puller tool and don’t want to get into that mess again. I also don’t want to ruin this by trying to take one of the chain rings off, as it’s a pretty cool crank set and I would rather see someone get to use them.

I may also soon be getting into my headset, as I hear some grinding in there. This is also a new area for me, though what I understood from one of your other postings in the forum, I would basically need 5/32" bearings and some waterproof grease to resolve this.

If anyone has any parts and would like to work out a trade/sale on the BB parts/crank, a French fork or tools, it would be appreciated. I've got the following parts if anyone can use them; mostly components removed from my last conversion and the PR-10:

Parts from PR-10
  • Double Stronglight crank – 170 arms (slight scratches on it and a pedal I have not yet been able to remove from the non-drive arm)
  • Simplex front & rear derailers with down-tube shift levers
  • Shimnano Tourney rear break & break lever
  • Rear rim - “Samir Samiox,” laced to a “4-71” hub with a 5-speed Mallard cassette
  • Front rim - “Super Champion,” laced to a “Normandy” with a red sticker in the shape of France on it
Parts from Corbier
  • Pedals
  • Road brake & brake Lever
  • SACHS HURET downtube shift levers, front and rear derailers
Nashbar Road Handlebar - 44cm

Thanks again for your help, let me know what you think.

Cheers!
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